Someone sell me on Darnold

[greenwichjetfan]

I hate Debbie downers. This site is filled with them and is generally why I read the site 10x/day but average only 1 post/day. SOJF aren’t worth my time, I say. But today, I realize I sound like one.

I want to be happy and excited. I woke up yesterday like a 7 year old on Christmas, knowing we were going to get our choice of 2 of the top 3 QBs, knowing that there was no way we’d make the Allen mistake because I see Mac growing before our eyes, and knowing that we’d choose one of them. I cleared my entire afternoon even though I have a major deadline looming for today. I WFH, went to MetLife with my brother and best friend, tailgated with @Maxman and got to meet TailgateJoe. I was amped for the draft. I knew I’d be excited. 

However, standing there on the field at the 50 in MetLife while the Jets were on the clock, I found myself hoping for the most cerebral guy in the draft who happens to be able to make every single throw on the field, and when Goodell called Darnold, I found myself to be upset. I don’t want to feel this way. 

Someone please sell me on Darnold. Sell me on why his turnovers, small hands, minimal starting experience, and USC non-pro-style background are irrelevant or can be amended with age and experience.

Or better yet, someone go the other way and sell me on why Darnold will be throwing TDS in meaningful December and January (and hopefully February) games for the next 12-15 years.

 

[Grandy]

17/22 GMs thought he was best in class, regarded as a better prospect than Goff and Wentz by DJ, Cowherd says he's at worst Andrew Luck (I know its Cowherd we're talking about. But still). Highest floor, and highest ceiling. We have our guy.

[Larz]

17 out of 24 GM's polled ranked him #1

Checks every box 

Mentally strong 

Big game player 

20 years old 

[prime21]

He’s our QB.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Mavericknyc1980]

I can’t find the link but watch XDilfer and Darnold in soul and science.  Btw a great point Mcshay said is Sam lost 3 line man and his top wide receivers.

[New York Mick]

Sell or don’t yourself. Watch his college games and make up your own mind. Either way there’s nothing you can do about it. 

[Hael]

If you watch tape on him, he is the only qb in the draft (along with Rosen) who really has NFL ready throws.  It's extremely rare for any college qb to be able to do that, and that's why those two guys have been so heavily hyped.  Even players like Aaron Rogers weren't making those types of throws in college (it took a few years).

Some guys have great arm strength (hell, look no further than Hack and Petty), but that's really not enough.  You need the combination of release speed, the tightness of the spiral, the velocity and angle of the ball and crucially the accuracy of placement that sets a pro ready qb from someone who isn't.

Anyway, couple that with a good work ethic, and we finally have a player that has a nonzero chance of developing into a good QB.  Compare that with a prospect like Hack who really isn't interesting, simply b/c you know that he will never end up with over a 55% completion percentage in the pros.

[Jetster]

When I heard David Shaw of Stanford use Darnold & Luck in the same sentence I gizzed a bit.

[Larz]

Rosen was chosen 4th for a reason. 

If you fell in love with a player knowing that you had a 1/4 chance of being happy that's your mistake not the Jets 

Rosen was never linked to the #1 pick by anybody 

Darnold was for a year 

[Philc1]

He’s better than Mayfield.  Doesn’t have Rosen’s injury history and was better statistically than Allen in college facing top competition 

[NYs Stepchild]

5 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Sell or don’t yourself. Watch his college games and make up your own mind. Either way there’s nothing you can do about it. 

It's not like it's so easy to find info on this Darnold kid. 

[Jetster]

2 minutes ago, Hael said:

If you watch tape on him, he is the only qb in the draft (along with Rosen) who really has NFL ready throws.  It's extremely rare for any college qb to be able to do that, and that's why those two guys have been so heavily hyped.  Even players like Aaron Rogers weren't making those types of throws in college (it took a few years).

Some guys have great arm strength (hell, look no further than Hack and Petty), but that's really not enough.  You need the combination of release speed, the tightness of the spiral, the velocity and angle of the ball and crucially the accuracy of placement that sets a pro ready qb from someone who isn't.

Anyway, couple that with a good work ethic, and we finally have a player that has a nonzero chance of developing into a good QB.  Compare that with a prospect like Hack who really isn't interesting, simply b/c you know that he will never end up with over a 55% completion percentage in the pros.

Great points. It also seems like him NOT throwing at the combine turned some people off. But at his pro day (in a rain storm mind you), everyone there said it just solidified the fact he was going #1 overall. I still can't believe he dropped to us.

My fantasy football team name was SUCK FOR SAM last year.

[Irish Jet]

It's really not that hard.

I remember trying to do this with Hackenberg and every time I just went back to the bottle.

[jack48]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He’s better than Mayfield.  Doesn’t have Rosen’s injury history and was better statistically than Allen in college facing top competition 

His cast of characters was also dimiished this year.  Great.  They wanted us to suck for Sam and we did not.  But Sam sucked for us.  He had a down year when he was going to be consensus Number One.

[Ken Schroy]

12 minutes ago, Jetster said:

When I heard David Shaw of Stanford use Darnold & Luck in the same sentence I gizzed a bit.

I saw that. That's a college coach who has faced Sam. That's enough for me.

[jbt]

i think his demeanor will be good for the jets.  kind of like Eli.  wont be doing GQ covers

[CTM]

22 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I hate Debbie downers. This site is filled with them and is generally why I read the site 10x/day but average only 1 post/day. SOJF aren’t worth my time, I say. But today, I realize I sound like one.

I want to be happy and excited. I woke up yesterday like a 7 year old on Christmas, knowing we were going to get our choice of 2 of the top 3 QBs, knowing that there was no way we’d make the Allen mistake because I see Mac growing before our eyes, and knowing that we’d choose one of them. I cleared my entire afternoon even though I have a major deadline looming for today. I WFH, went to MetLife with my brother and best friend, tailgated with @Maxman and got to meet TailgateJoe. I was amped for the draft. I knew I’d be excited. 

However, standing there on the field at the 50 in MetLife while the Jets were on the clock, I found myself hoping for the most cerebral guy in the draft who happens to be able to make every single throw on the field, and when Goodell called Darnold, I found myself to be upset. I don’t want to feel this way. 

Someone please sell me on Darnold. Sell me on why his turnovers, small hands, minimal starting experience, and USC non-pro-style background are irrelevant or can be amended with age and experience.

Or better yet, someone go the other way and sell me on why Darnold will be throwing TDS in meaningful December and January (and hopefully February) games for the next 12-15 years.

 

Eh, you can think it's a bad pick and still root for the player and hope to be proven wrong. Darnold will be fun to watch, he'll make some great plays and probably a lot of boneheaded ones. On the plus side, he's really young so he's got plenty of time to clean up his game.  I don't think the Jets are going to rush him in there.

Personally, I'm with you and would rather have the polished guy whose shown he can run an offense than the high ceiling sandlot guy who needs a lot of work. The latter seems to not work out more often than it does. The reality however is that I think Rosen comes with significant durability issues that makes him as likely of becoming Sam Bradford as Matt Ryan, maybe even more so.

So maybe sell yourself that Rosen wasn't a slam dunk either?

[TommyT]

When the pocket breaks down is when Darnold is at his best. He instinctively is evasive and will extend a play.

[nico002]

Darnold possesses some of the rare skills that separate the great QB.

- He is EXTREMELY accurate, especially on the move where he is Aaron Rodgers Sharp

- He throws guys open, he puts the ball in a spot before the WR gets open. This is the #1 skill that separates elite NFL QBs. He has it in spades, you can’t teach this. Amazing natural throwing instincts. 

- Huidini like ability to avoid the rush while still looking to make a play. Not as fast as Russell Wilson or as strong as Big Ben, but when you watch Darnold he is at their level in terms of making guys miss and extending plays 

- natural born leader of men. Steady eddy. Ask his team mates what they think and they’ll tell you they would walk off a bridge for the guy. Mans man. A hardworking good guy. Witty smart humor, media darling.

- clutch. Great players make big plays in big games- Darnold has done that his entire career.

- 20 years old. Youngest top QB pick ever, 3 years younger than Baker Mayfield.

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

I saw that. That's a college coach who has faced Sam. That's enough for me.

He was gushing about Sam, and that's coming from a guy that standing on the sidelines with a birds eye view of a guy making plays at full speed. Very encouraging. Macc has a horseshoe up his azz in the 1st round.

Leonard Williams falls in his lap. Jamal Adams falls in his lap (I know there are detractors but he's a very good player & certainly not a bust). You need leaders at every level, Williams on the Dline, Williamson at LB, Adams/Maye at safety, Trumaine/Morris at CB. Now we need to find leaders on offense at every level & Sam Darnold was a nice start!

[Warfish]

25 minutes ago, Larz said:

Rosen was chosen 4th for a reason. 

If you fell in love with a player knowing that you had a 1/4 chance of being happy that's your mistake not the Jets 

Rosen was never linked to the #1 pick by anybody 

Darnold was for a year 

This.

For every doubt on Darnold, Rosen has a doubt as well, if not more.

Near consensus top QB prospect.

Yes his turnovers are a legit discussion point. Unquestionably.

But we get the top QB at#3, we should be pleased and at least conservatively optimistic...till we’re given reason to be critical.

[neckdemon]

if, by m"most cerebral" you meant Rosen then look no further than this idiot saying he wa spissed not being picked 1-3, but also that if he was he was going to have to "fake a smile and excitement". plus already has had shoulder injuries to throwing arm and 2 concussions last year. Darnold was the guy and he fell to us. Be happy

[TuscanyTile2]

His size is great (no constant injury concussion worry a la Rosen).  The throwing accurately on the run is great.  One of the analysts last night called him a "houdini" in the pocket avoiding the rush.  And he's only 20 freaking years old.  I think both Baker and Rosen are 23.  That's a HUGE difference at that age.  Darnold is already probably better than both and he's 3 years younger!  And Darnold doesn't have he Baker shortness red flag nor the Rosen injury red flag.  Darnold is a QB who is a playmaker.  He did more with less at USC.  Yes he'll prob turn the ball over a lot early in his Jets career but Peyton Manning threw a ton of INTs early on and still is a HOFer.  Let's also remember McCown can teach him the ropes and supposedly Jeremy Bates is very highly regarded (the less Bowles' involvement the better).  And we won't need to throw him into the fire because we've got McCown and Bridgewater for this year. 

This is a great day in Jets history! 

[NoBowles]

I was so excited when I heard the Giants take Barkley knowing that we had our choice between Rosen and Darnold. I’m not going to lie, I wanted Rosen slightly more, even though I was on the Suck for Sam bandwagon going into last season.

that said, it’s hard to ignore the injury risk and us being the Jets. There is a law that states if something bad can happen to the Jets, it will. Rosen would have had us 15-0 in his rookie season to retire to go ice dancing and Wear tight pants and twirl around the ice while we hold our manhood in our hands.

darnold is 20, what he did in 16 was flat out special. 17 was alarming, but he will have a half year to sit and learn, and the kids got the goods. 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

if, by m"most cerebral" you meant Rosen then look no further than this idiot saying he wa spissed not being picked 1-3, but also that if he was he was going to have to "fake a smile and excitement". plus already has had shoulder injuries to throwing arm and 2 concussions last year. Darnold was the guy and he fell to us. Be happy

I remember being surprised in a pre-draft interview where he was cocky toward the rest of his draft class.  He was like "I'll be the last man standing".  It didn't come off as a playfully competitive either.  Darnold seems like more a quiet, humble kid (at least far more so than Rosen).  I like his demeanor and not having to worry about personality issues.  Pre-draft I ignored those concerns about Rosen but he really does seem like a cocky eff.  I still do think Rosen will be good as long as he's healthy.  And the warm weather of AZ will prob be to his advantage.  But I fully understand scouts who say that Rosen will be great when given a clean pocket "but how often do you see that in the NFL".  The NFL is about improvising under pressure.  Sam is the guy for that.  I think we hit the jackpot here.  We just need to not rush him.  Let him marinate for 1-2 years.  

[nycdan]

He's a ginger!

[Jetster]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

His size is great (no constant injury concussion worry a la Rosen).  The throwing accurately on the run is great.  One of the analysts last night called him a "houdini" in the pocket avoiding the rush.  And he's only 20 freaking years old.  I think both Baker and Rosen are 23.  That's a HUGE difference at that age.  Darnold is already probably better than both and he's 3 years younger!  And Darnold doesn't have he Baker shortness red flag nor the Rosen injury red flag.  Darnold is a QB who is a playmaker.  He did more with less at USC.  Yes he'll prob turn the ball over a lot early in his Jets career but Peyton Manning threw a ton of INTs early on and still is a HOFer.  Let's also remember McCown can teach him the ropes and supposedly Jeremy Bates is very highly regarded (the less Bowles' involvement the better).  And we won't need to throw him into the fire because we've got McCown and Bridgewater for this year. 

This is a great day in Jets history! 

Plus all of us know the strength difference going from 20 to 23. He's a big thick kid, that has great pocket awareness, which means at his size he won't be that easy to corral. Sanchez & Geno had ZERO pocket presence.

[PS17]

The Browns passed on him. That should sell you.

[sourceworx]

37 minutes ago, Larz said:

Rosen was chosen 4th for a reason. 

If you fell in love with a player knowing that you had a 1/4 chance of being happy that's your mistake not the Jets 

Rosen was never linked to the #1 pick by anybody 

Darnold was for a year 

Yeah Rosen's injury history was the one thing that worried me with him. Ross Tucker brought up a good point on it: Rosen had two concussions last season. If he has a third at some point this Fall, that'll be three in a year's time. With a father in the medical profession, Rosen may very well decide to call it quits right then and there.

That scenario would be disastrous for us.

Darnold's turnovers worry me. But we saw firsthand in 1998 with Vinny Testaverde that it is something that can be cleaned up with good coaching. Let's hope Jeremy Bates can pull it off with this kid. 

[greenwichjetfan]

48 minutes ago, prime21 said:

He’s our QB.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Thoroughly useless post. Petty and Hack are too. You’re sold on them?

45 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Sell or don’t yourself. Watch his college games and make up your own mind. Either way there’s nothing you can do about it. 

Thank you. This was helpful and added value to the thread.

40 minutes ago, Larz said:

Rosen was chosen 4th for a reason. 

If you fell in love with a player knowing that you had a 1/4 chance of being happy that's your mistake not the Jets 

Rosen was never linked to the #1 pick by anybody 

Darnold was for a year 

Yes, I’m aware I made a mistake and not the Jets. I’m hoping that holds true.

For everyone who feels butthurt that I would dare even create this thread, let me make this perfectly clear. Darnold is our guy. I’ll root for him as hard as I rooted for Sanchez even though I wasn’t sold on him either. I want Darnold throwing TDS in January and February for us for the next 15 years.

This thread was not created to bitch about the pick, it was for the opposite; to feel better about it. A lot of the posts so far - the above notwithstanding - have done that.

 

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

Yeah Rosen's injury history was the one thing that worried me with him. Ross Tucker brought up a good point on it: Rosen had two concussions last season. If he has a third at some point this Fall, that'll be three in a year's time. With a father in the medical profession, Rosen may very well decide to call it quits right then and there.

That scenario would be disastrous for us.

Darnold's turnovers worry me. But we saw firsthand in 1998 with Vinny Testaverde that it is something that can be cleaned up with good coaching. Let's hope Jeremy Bates can pull it off with this kid. 

I read in the DN that Matt Ryan had the same number of turnovers his last year in college.  He turned it around rather nicely.  Not saying Darnold WILL but I am saying there's recent and valid precedent he CAN.

[greenwichjetfan]

51 minutes ago, Hael said:

If you watch tape on him, he is the only qb in the draft (along with Rosen) who really has NFL ready throws.  It's extremely rare for any college qb to be able to do that, and that's why those two guys have been so heavily hyped.  Even players like Aaron Rogers weren't making those types of throws in college (it took a few years).

Some guys have great arm strength (hell, look no further than Hack and Petty), but that's really not enough.  You need the combination of release speed, the tightness of the spiral, the velocity and angle of the ball and crucially the accuracy of placement that sets a pro ready qb from someone who isn't.

Anyway, couple that with a good work ethic, and we finally have a player that has a nonzero chance of developing into a good QB.  Compare that with a prospect like Hack who really isn't interesting, simply b/c you know that he will never end up with over a 55% completion percentage in the pros.

 

45 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Great points. It also seems like him NOT throwing at the combine turned some people off. But at his pro day (in a rain storm mind you), everyone there said it just solidified the fact he was going #1 overall. I still can't believe he dropped to us.

My fantasy football team name was SUCK FOR SAM last year.

 

33 minutes ago, jbt said:

i think his demeanor will be good for the jets.  kind of like Eli.  wont be doing GQ covers

 

28 minutes ago, TommyT said:

When the pocket breaks down is when Darnold is at his best. He instinctively is evasive and will extend a play.

 

25 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Darnold possesses some of the rare skills that separate the great QB.

- He is EXTREMELY accurate, especially on the move where he is Aaron Rodgers Sharp

- He throws guys open, he puts the ball in a spot before the WR gets open. This is the #1 skill that separates elite NFL QBs. He has it in spades, you can’t teach this. Amazing natural throwing instincts. 

- Huidini like ability to avoid the rush while still looking to make a play. Not as fast as Russell Wilson or as strong as Big Ben, but when you watch Darnold he is at their level in terms of making guys miss and extending plays 

- natural born leader of men. Steady eddy. Ask his team mates what they think and they’ll tell you they would walk off a bridge for the guy. Mans man. A hardworking good guy. Witty smart humor, media darling.

- clutch. Great players make big plays in big games- Darnold has done that his entire career.

- 20 years old. Youngest top QB pick ever, 3 years younger than Baker Mayfield.

 

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

This.

For every doubt on Darnold, Rosen has a doubt as well, if not more.

Near consensus top QB prospect.

Yes his turnovers are a legit discussion point. Unquestionably.

But we get the top QB at#3, we should be pleased and at least conservatively optimistic...till we’re given reason to be critical.

 

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

His size is great (no constant injury concussion worry a la Rosen).  The throwing accurately on the run is great.  One of the analysts last night called him a "houdini" in the pocket avoiding the rush.  And he's only 20 freaking years old.  I think both Baker and Rosen are 23.  That's a HUGE difference at that age.  Darnold is already probably better than both and he's 3 years younger!  And Darnold doesn't have he Baker shortness red flag nor the Rosen injury red flag.  Darnold is a QB who is a playmaker.  He did more with less at USC.  Yes he'll prob turn the ball over a lot early in his Jets career but Peyton Manning threw a ton of INTs early on and still is a HOFer.  Let's also remember McCown can teach him the ropes and supposedly Jeremy Bates is very highly regarded (the less Bowles' involvement the better).  And we won't need to throw him into the fire because we've got McCown and Bridgewater for this year. 

This is a great day in Jets history! 

 

9 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I was so excited when I heard the Giants take Barkley knowing that we had our choice between Rosen and Darnold. I’m not going to lie, I wanted Rosen slightly more, even though I was on the Suck for Sam bandwagon going into last season.

that said, it’s hard to ignore the injury risk and us being the Jets. There is a law that states if something bad can happen to the Jets, it will. Rosen would have had us 15-0 in his rookie season to retire to go ice dancing and Wear tight pants and twirl around the ice while we hold our manhood in our hands.

darnold is 20, what he did in 16 was flat out special. 17 was alarming, but he will have a half year to sit and learn, and the kids got the goods. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Plus all of us know the strength difference going from 20 to 23. He's a big thick kid, that has great pocket awareness, which means at his size he won't be that easy to corral. Sanchez & Geno had ZERO pocket presence.

:Applause:

Awesome job guys. Thank you.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, nycdan said:

I read in the DN that Matt Ryan had the same number of turnovers his last year in college.  He turned it around rather nicely.  Not saying Darnold WILL but I am saying there's recent and valid precedent he CAN.

It was also said this morning by Randy Moss on NFLN that Dan Marino had 46 INTs his last two years of college

[HawkeyeJet]

He has a champions jaw line. 

[FlagmanL11]

From wikipedia

His grandfather, Dick Hammer, is a former Marlboro Man actor and USC athlete