Leonard Williams drawing interest from other teams per Schefter

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I could certainly see a player being thrown in.  They have to cut somebody to take on Williams and our roster is pretty barren.  I agree that it isn't likely to be a big piece.

If there is a player involved it certainly isn’t going to be paired with a 2nd round pick. Maybe a 5th plus a JAG type player, but the Jets would be better with another later round pick.  

[Dinamite]

wow, Jalen Ramsey with 2 first round picks  and a 4th from the rams.    Maybe someone will overpay for LW too.   

[bostonmajet]

9 hours ago, varjet said:

It would make sense to many of us to trade Leo now because we believe that this is not a playoff year. 
 

But until the Jets lose 8 games, they are not out of the playoffs.  If Leo is playing more than half the snaps, and the defense is playing well, I can see the Johnsons holding onto to Leo.  I would trade him for a draft pick, but if the season is alive I would not be surprised if Leo stays.  If they lose against the Pats and Jags, he likely goes.  If they win one, he probably stays 
 

 

We have tremendous depth at DL; we may still make the playoffs, but we aren't going anywhere; by the time we are eliminated, we will not be able to trade him; so, if you can get a 3rd (in my mind even a 4th) or better for him, we can possibly draft another player, or be able to move up to grab a desired player.

Given the choice of a shot at a possible 3rd in 2021 and a definite 3rd (or better) in 2019 and the cap savings, I pull the trigger. We would even save some $ on the rest of the season's pay. Make it happen Tanny

[Pac]

58 minutes ago, RobR said:

You don't see a difference in a player that was traded to team who was available to that team for an entire year like Sheldon? If Leo gets traded his new team would have his services for a half season and then he hits free agency. That's a big difference when we are talking compensation.

For some reason no one seems too mention this, but both situations are very different.

Also LOL at disruptive force. Leo is anything but a disruptive force. At best he is a decent run plugger and one that is making just under a mil a week. Sheldon was on his rookie contract when he got traded. Very convenient for you and most of the posters here to leave that out.

yeah you're wrong.  the situations are almost identical.

both on last year of rookie deals looking for big contracts with the next one.

both high first round picks who have made pro bowls.

in both situations the player, while good, isn't necessary going forward.

the only difference is we're 5 games in but that's offset with Williams having zero character concerns. 

You can lol at disruptive force all you want but that's what he is.  We'll know soon enough how the league views him.

If there is no trade it's because the offers were sh-t like a 4th round pick and Douglas rightfully told them to go f themselves.

[Hael]

A late 3rd or early 4th round pick is approximately what he's worth.  The only way we get a 3rd or a 2nd (the dream) is if theres a desperate bidding war between playoff bound teams that are in win now mode.

The Sheldon trade was roughly a mid 3 in net draft value (2nd + swap late rounders + salary dump of Kearse).  The flipside is 1) Sheldon was probably a better player at that time, and 2) the team gets him for 6 games longer. 

So maybe someone falls in love with Leo's character, his upside and his run stuffing ability, but I would be thrilled with a Sheldon Richardson like deal.

Still we will likely take whatever we can get.  There is no world where Leo stays on this team and we walk away with nothing (since its unlikely we recoup his comp draft pick in value since we will be in FA mode)

[RobR]

11 minutes ago, Pac said:

yeah you're wrong.  the situations are almost identical.

both on last year of rookie deals looking for big contracts with the next one.

both high first round picks who have made pro bowls.

in both situations the player, while good, isn't necessary going forward.

the only difference is we're 5 games in but that's offset with Williams having zero character concerns. 

You can lol at disruptive force all you want but that's what he is.  We'll know soon enough how the league views him.

If there is no trade it's because the offers were sh-t like a 4th round pick and Douglas rightfully told them to go f themselves.

They're really not and I explained why they are completely different. You can choose to ignore the obvious, that's your choice.

It's quite comical when someone bumps one of your past posts just too show how wrong and unrealistic you were.

This one will be no different.

Keep up the good work Paccagnan.

 

[Pac]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

They're really not and I explained why they are completely different. You can choose to ignore the obvious, that's your choice.

It's quite comical when someone bumps one of your past posts just too show how wrong and unrealistic you were.

This one will be no different.

Keep up the good work Paccagnan.

 

Must have missed all those bumped posts but if you say so.

Like I said..  we'll see soon enough who got it right or wrong here.  If we take a 4th I'll have no problem saying A) I was wrong...  B ) Douglas got raped.

[RobR]

3 minutes ago, Pac said:

Must have missed all those bumped posts but if you say so.

Like I said..  we'll see soon enough who got it right or wrong here.  If we take a 4th I'll have no problem saying A) I was wrong...  B ) Douglas got raped.

Selective amnesia?

Or C) You were completely wrong in your valuation of Leonard Williams.

My money is on C.

 

[KRL]

CHI just lost Akiem Hicks, maybe they're an option

[Dcat]

12 hours ago, Pac said:

Must have missed all those bumped posts but if you say so.

Like I said..  we'll see soon enough who got it right or wrong here.  If we take a 4th I'll have no problem saying A) I was wrong...  B ) Douglas got raped.

Raped? Leo isn't worth more than a 4th. If he was, he would have had more teams asking and a deal would have been done already. Probably last year.

[slats]

15 hours ago, Pac said:

You often make sense and I'm not saying your opinion is crazy but all of this could have been said about the situation we were in with Sheldon.  That was actually a bit worse as Sheldon was coming off a very suspect offseason including cannonball run style driving with blunts and minors.  If Macc can get a 2nd and a starting WR there's no reason Douglas should take less.

Whether or not you think Williams sucks he is a highly respected player with impeccable character and is a disruptive force.  The only reason I don't care if we trade him is Macc seems to have found some quality D-line depth and Q will be the goods.

If Douglas is getting bullsh-t offers he should stand pat and look for a tag and trade scenario in the offseason.  This is his big first test.  He can't set the precedent that he can be strong-armed in negotiations. 

A 4th rounder would be a horrible failure.  Again -- I don't think he's that bad of a GM.

The market determines his value. You wanna call him an impact player, but impact DL collect sacks, and Leo doesn't do that. He's a good, starting caliber on almost any NFL team, defensive lineman. That has value. It'll have more value if a couple teams get into a bidding war for a run-stuffing DT. That's the hope. 

From the Jets perspective, they're unlikely to resign Leo. So what to do? They need to both maximize their return for him while also not inhibiting what they can do in free agency next year. If they fail to trade him, then they'd be relying on getting the comp pick for him in 2021, causing them to thread the needle in free agency by staying out of the market, targeting cut players, that sort of thing. That could be crippling. Same with a tag & trade that you propose, which is a tough negotiating position for a good, starting caliber player. But that also ties up franchise tag money until you execute your hoped for trade, and that also impacts what they can do in free agency. 

No, the best move for the future is getting what you can for him now. If the baseline is a third round comp pick in 2021 (which is no lock), then a fourth round pick in 2020 is the absolute floor for what you want back in a trade. I'll be disappointed if that's all they can get but it would still be better than being hamstrung in free agency next off season and hoping for a comp pick the following year. Taking the fourth wouldn't be a horrible failure, it would simply be pragmatic if that's all the market gives. 

[DMan77]

It's probably my imagination but haven't the prices paid in trades seemed to be really high the last 16 months or so?

Two first rounds for Ramsey... Minkah for a first... I mean the Vikings threw out a 5th rounder for our former kicker Vedvik...

Maybe prices are a tick above what we're used to?

I feel like maybe a few years ago a 4th and maybe a 6th rounder would have been pretty standard for this kind of trade?

But it just feels like teams have been more apt to release higher picks in trades recently... But maybe that's just selective sight... 

[CurtMart]

14 hours ago, Dinamite said:

wow, Jalen Ramsey with 2 first round picks  and a 4th from the rams.    Maybe someone will overpay for LW too.   

I’m hoping for the same. Maybe someone will send us their 5th? 

[Barry McCockinner]

Anyone have an updated list of teams confirmed to be interested?

[Butterfield]

I saw somewhere a rumor of Halapoulivaati Vaitai and a draft pick from the Eagles.  I’d be all over that.

[CurtMart]

In all seriousness, if Douglas trades LW for a 4th, I want him fired on the spot. LW should fetch us at least a 4th in comp pick, why trade him. He has potential, we can all agree on that. Teams do overpay if there’s potential. Anything less than a 3rd would be awful for LW.

 

I say all that with the assumption Douglas knows how comp picks work. Cuz our last gem of a GM didn’t know they existed. What a fraud.

 

[CurtMart]

11 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Anyone have an updated list of teams confirmed to be interested?

Yeah I created an excel sheet but wasn’t able to save it cuz the file size was “too small”. Bet you’ve heard that before!

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, Butterfield said:

I saw somewhere a rumor of Halapoulivaati Vaitai and a draft pick from the Eagles.  I’d be all over that.

That was via an Eagles writer for the Athletic. Just his idea..He had 20 other players/trade ideas for the Eagles including RAnderson..

[jetstream23]

Any other teams that have a good, young OLineman or WR in his "walk year" that they may not want to pay?

This might be the most realistic approach, finding a team that is deep at a position where they have a young player who will be expensive and that they want to get some value for.  I'd have to go back and look at the contract status for those 2015 draft picks but a player swap +/- a draft pick could be an option.

EDIT:  Some players of note.  I don't know contract status....

Scherff, OL Redskins

Vic Beasley, Edge Falcons

Marcus Peters, CB (just got traded)

Andrus Peat, OT Saints

 

[Alka]

Forgive me for saying this, but I believe the thinking on this thread is completely wrong.

It's not what others think Leo is worth, it's what Leo is worth to the Jets.

Leo is a solid starting player on our defensive line, and for the Jets to give him up, we would have to be compensated for someone who would hold the same or equal value to the Jets.

It is my humble opinion that unless we got very lucky in the draft, no 3rd round pick will equal the value that Leo gives us right now.

Edoga and Polite were third round picks. Forget Polite, but in my mind Edoga even with his potential is not as valuable a player as Leo is to the Jets.  Leo was always a starter, and always a solid player.

If we are fortunate, Edoga will develop into a solid player, but he's wasn't Leo entering the draft.

If we are to get equal value, we need a 2nd round pick, and then we need to capitalize on our second round pick to acquire equal value that Leo is to the Jets.

It doesn't matter what other teams think of Leo; if he's not worth a second round pick to them, then we keep him, because he is at least 2nd round value to the Jets.

[Untouchable]

8 minutes ago, Alka said:

Forgive me for saying this, but I believe the thinking on this thread is completely wrong.

It's not what others think Leo is worth, it's what Leo is worth to the Jets.

Leo is a solid starting player on our defensive line, and for the Jets to give him up, we would have to be compensated for someone who would hold the same or equal value to the Jets.

It is my humble opinion that unless we got very lucky in the draft, no 3rd round pick will equal the value that Leo gives us right now.

Edoga and Polite were third round picks. Forget Polite, but in my mind Edoga even with his potential is not as valuable a player as Leo is to the Jets.  Leo was always a starter, and always a solid player.

If we are fortunate, Edoga will develop into a solid player, but he's wasn't Leo entering the draft.

If we are to get equal value, we need a 2nd round pick, and then we need to capitalize on our second round pick to acquire equal value that Leo is to the Jets.

It doesn't matter what other teams think of Leo; if he's not worth a second round pick to them, then we keep him, because he is at least 2nd round value to the Jets.

Meh

I can kinda see where you're coming from, but dudes like Kyle Phillips and Foley Fatukasi have been outshining Leo this year. A rookie UDFA and a 6th round pick from a year ago. 

Those guys are making a couple hundred K while Leo is taking up $14 million and is going to be looking for an 8 figure longterm deal in a few months.

If I could get a 3rd, I’d jump on it.

I want Doulas to have as much ammo as possible to build this team in his image. If that 3rd can end up netting us a starting OL or a major contributor at WR, CB or EDGE next year...then it’s well worth it IMO.

[Alka]

17 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Meh

I can kinda see where you're coming from, but dudes like Kyle Phillips and Foley Fatukasi have been outshining Leo this year. A rookie UDFA and a 6th round pick from a year ago. 

Those guys are making a couple hundred K while Leo is taking up $14 million and is going to be looking for an 8 figure longterm deal in a few months.

If I could get a 3rd, I’d jump on it.

I want Doulas to have as much ammo as possible to build this team in his image. If that 3rd can end up netting us a starting OL or a major contributor at WR, CB or EDGE next year...then it’s well worth it IMO.

My question to you:  Is Leo getting double-teamed by other teams?  I believe he is, and if I am wrong, then I agree with you.

I'm sure that Kyle Phillips and Fatukasi aren't garnering double-teams right now.

We need to compare apples with apples, and I know that in past years Leo was getting double-teamed by opposing teams.  Leo is still a young guy, in his prime.  

Leo has proven his worth over a few seasons, and Phillips and Fatukasi are hopefuls.  

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but in the end, if he gets traded for anything less than a 2nd round pick, then you were right.  I hope we find out soon.

If he doesn't get traded, then obviously the jets see the value that I see in him.

[Spoot-Face]

5 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Anyone have an updated list of teams confirmed to be interested?

Got it right here:

Spoiler

 

[Untouchable]

29 minutes ago, Alka said:

My question to you:  Is Leo getting double-teamed by other teams?  I believe he is, and if I am wrong, then I agree with you.

I'm sure that Kyle Phillips and Fatukasi aren't garnering double-teams right now.

We need to compare apples with apples, and I know that in past years Leo was getting double-teamed by opposing teams.  Leo is still a young guy, in his prime.  

Leo has proven his worth over a few seasons, and Phillips and Fatukasi are hopefuls.  

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but in the end, if he gets traded for anything less than a 2nd round pick, then you were right.  I hope we find out soon.

If he doesn't get traded, then obviously the jets see the value that I see in him.

Sure, he’s been getting double teamed on a good amount of plays.

But great players, hell, even really good players are at least capable of occasionally splitting said double teams and making a play.

Leo hasn’t made a splash play in nearly two years.

Guys like Shaun Ellis and Mo Wilkerson would face plenty of double teams. They still found a way to make plays and get to the QB. 

Leo seems like a good guy and is a solid player, but he’s not even remotely close to being irreplaceable.

If he was willing to sign for Henry Anderson money, I wouldn’t even be totally against keeping him. But he’s not going to settle for that. Guaranteed.

Might as well move him for decent compensation and let guys like Anderson, Phillips and Fatukasi rotate in his place.

[Bleedin Green]

If you're an interior DL and you can't handle double teams, you're not a particularly good interior DL.  The endless excuses for him being good despite not actually performing well on the field is ridiculous.  That's not even getting into the countless number of examples that have been provided around here over the years showing Leo getting completely wiped out of a play by a single blocker when this excuse is used.

There's a 99% chance he won't be worth to the Jets whatever he'll be asking for, so half a season in a lost year isn't a real reason to hold onto him.

[Pac]

8 hours ago, slats said:

The market determines his value. You wanna call him an impact player, but impact DL collect sacks, and Leo doesn't do that. He's a good, starting caliber on almost any NFL team, defensive lineman. That has value. It'll have more value if a couple teams get into a bidding war for a run-stuffing DT. That's the hope. 

From the Jets perspective, they're unlikely to resign Leo. So what to do? They need to both maximize their return for him while also not inhibiting what they can do in free agency next year. If they fail to trade him, then they'd be relying on getting the comp pick for him in 2021, causing them to thread the needle in free agency by staying out of the market, targeting cut players, that sort of thing. That could be crippling. Same with a tag & trade that you propose, which is a tough negotiating position for a good, starting caliber player. But that also ties up franchise tag money until you execute your hoped for trade, and that also impacts what they can do in free agency. 

No, the best move for the future is getting what you can for him now. If the baseline is a third round comp pick in 2021 (which is no lock), then a fourth round pick in 2020 is the absolute floor for what you want back in a trade. I'll be disappointed if that's all they can get but it would still be better than being hamstrung in free agency next off season and hoping for a comp pick the following year. Taking the fourth wouldn't be a horrible failure, it would simply be pragmatic if that's all the market gives. 

Williams is going to get a huge contract from someone.  I don't think anything we do in FA is going to jeopardize a potential comp pick.  Funny how some people think we're going to be big FA spenders again when the whole point of bringing Douglas in is his supposed prowess in the draft.

I don't subscribe to this nonsense about needing to replace more than half the starters or whatever absurd # dopes like 80 and Shane come up with.  A lot of good pieces are here. 

If he's getting low balled I think he'll stand pat and try and making something happen in the off season.  Douglas knows if he takes a crappy return and Williams goes and blows up in a better scheme fit he'll look like a fool. 

While I think we got low balled on the Lee trade I think people give the Jets a pass because Douglas wasn't here and Gase was apparently dying to make a statement.

 

[Bleedin Green]

14 minutes ago, Pac said:

Williams is going to get a huge contract from someone.  I don't think anything we do in FA is going to jeopardize a potential comp pick.  Funny how some people think we're going to be big FA spenders again when the whole point of bringing Douglas in is his supposed prowess in the draft.

I don't subscribe to this nonsense about needing to replace more than half the starters or whatever absurd # dopes like 80 and Shane come up with.  A lot of good pieces are here. 

If he's getting low balled I think he'll stand pat and try and making something happen in the off season.  Douglas knows if he takes a crappy return and Williams goes and blows up in a better scheme fit he'll look like a fool. 

While I think we got low balled on the Lee trade I think people give the Jets a pass because Douglas wasn't here and Gase was apparently dying to make a statement.

 

So you believe Douglas will make his decisions based solely on your own personal misunderstanding of the comp pick system? Seems legit.

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So you believe Douglas will make his decisions based solely on your own personal misunderstanding of the comp pick system? Seems legit.

Not to mention we already have 53 mil in cap space next year which will grow exponentially with a few deserving cuts. We're going to be buyers even if JD doesn't want to. Some idiots don't even realize there is a cap floor and the only player on our own team who should sign a decent contract is Robby.....that's it. That's what happens when you draft like sh*t(Mac) and don't have any worthwhile players deserving of a new contract. 

[ElBarrioJets]

Shepherd comes off suspension soon. There's your Leo replacement when he's traded.

[CTM]

43 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

So you believe Douglas will make his decisions based solely on your own personal misunderstanding of the comp pick system? Seems legit.

A boy can dream....

[Beerfish]

4 hours ago, Alka said:

My question to you:  Is Leo getting double-teamed by other teams?  I believe he is, and if I am wrong, then I agree with you.

I'm sure that Kyle Phillips and Fatukasi aren't garnering double-teams right now.

We need to compare apples with apples, and I know that in past years Leo was getting double-teamed by opposing teams.  Leo is still a young guy, in his prime.  

Leo has proven his worth over a few seasons, and Phillips and Fatukasi are hopefuls.  

Maybe I'm overthinking it, but in the end, if he gets traded for anything less than a 2nd round pick, then you were right.  I hope we find out soon.

If he doesn't get traded, then obviously the jets see the value that I see in him.

Can we please get rid of this silly long time excuse.  That is all you eve hear about whey he has no impact.  He is double teamed his whole career, bull feathers.

We need help everywhere more than the dline we just used another high pick there.  We are not going to pay him on a huge new contract.  We are not getting a compensatory pick if he signs elsewhere.

He needs to be traded now before the deadline or it is a large fail by this front office.

Competent interior dlineman are a dime a dozen

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

While I think we got low balled on the Lee trade I think people give the Jets a pass because Douglas wasn't here and Gase was apparently dying to make a statement.

Darron Lee doesn’t even start for KC and currently has a robust 15 tackle, zero sacks, zero pressures, and zero INTs on one of the worst defenses in football.

[Losmeister]

3 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Is Leo getting double-teamed by other teams?  I believe he is, and if I am wrong, then I agree with you.

I'm sure that Kyle Phillips and Fatukasi aren't garnering double-teams right now.

If you dont know what their doing with Leo wtf would anyone listen to you about your certainty about the other 2??

makes no sense. ignore list.

[Untouchable]

9 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

If you dont know what their doing with Leo wtf would anyone listen to you about your certainty about the other 2??

makes no sense. ignore list.

Huh? I didn’t write this.

 

EDIT: Just saw it was Alka

[Pac]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

So you believe Douglas will make his decisions based solely on your own personal misunderstanding of the comp pick system? Seems legit.

The good thing about this disagreement is we dont have to wait long to see how it plays out.  I dont expect you to admit defeat but know that I know that you know you were defeated.