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Merged Becton Injury Thread


johnnyjet
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6 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I dont think JD can solve the issue at this point.  Everything he can do this season is a stop gap measure but that doesnt mean the Jets situation at T week 1 cant be much better than it is right now.  There are a bunch of old veterans who could provide as stop gap measure for the season.

Brown, Peters, Tretter, Fischer, Massie, Shell, Crosby....and then always trade options and camp casualties. 

 

 

Dillard(PHI), McGary (ATL), or James (BAL) are 3 tackles that would make a huge difference on this team... they are on the outs with their current team and could be had with a decent trade package. all are on their last year of their contract but if this allows a year to help Zach. Keep Brown (If signed) as a swing tackle and if they over-perform they can tag for another year. I am sure that something like this will happen. They are looking to compete this year and cannot go into the year without getting this fixed.

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35 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

It's not like people doubting Becton or asking for a contingency plan at tackle were glad that Becton is unreliable. It basically goes back to acknowledging the evidence (he's got maturity issues and weight problems) and understanding that you have to plan around it because either way, he was a long shot to play in even a majority of games in 2022 regardless given his pro injury history. It sucks, but this whole thing wasn't exactly unforeseeable.

 

I was one of the loudest on the forum to resign Morgan Moses largely because I fear Becton's availability and said it was a huge mistake not to bring him back.  I faced a lot of push back on that stance.  If you remember, I was huge on Darian Kinnard (was a little frustrated with Mitchell over him) and was taking him almost every mock I posted.  So wasnt naïve to this happening.

That said, there is a huge difference between that line of thinking and what was going on around here and still is in this thread with the Becton bashing and I think you know that...it's extreme and a lil weird., which is why I started trolling them back with the Becton Pancake Club stuff.  

 

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5 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

well in your initial argument it seemed you were using this as proof why rehabilitation or motivation does not work completely forgetting the fact that the reason it does not work is because they usually have nobody in their corner nor any hope when released....poor analogy to a millionaire football player if you ask me.

The point being made was that punishment is an ineffective deterrent to behavior.

That other supports are beneficial, if not required for success, only further proves the point that punishment is an ineffective deterrent to behavior.

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

I was one of the loudest on the forum to resign Morgan Moses largely because I fear Becton's availability and said it was a huge mistake not to bring him back.  I faced a lot of push back on that stance.  If you remember, I was huge on Darian Kinnard (was a little frustrated with Mitchell over him) and was taking him almost every mock I posted.  So wasnt naïve to this happening.

That said, there is a huge difference between that line of thinking and what was going on around here and still is in this thread with the Becton bashing and I think you know that...it's extreme and a lil weird., which is why I started trolling them back with the Becton Pancake Club stuff.  

 

Moses didn't want to sign here.  He wanted to go to Baltimore.

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1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

The point being made was that punishment is an ineffective deterrent to behavior.

That other supports are beneficial, if not required for success, only further proves the point that punishment is an ineffective deterrent to behavior.

and on that note back to football.

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1 minute ago, freestater said:

I'm always right, buddy. Just takes the deluded longer to see it. By no means did I want to be right on this, but that doesn’t make me desire to run around with wishful thinking guiding my logic. I begged and pleaded for the Jets to not enter thus season relying on a guy who has proven unreliable. At such an important position, with the progress of our young signal-caller in the balance, to cling to the idea that right tackle was all set because we have Big Ticket over there was ludicrous. All evidence pointed to it. Some just didn't want to admit it. Unfortunately it seems our GM was among them. 

Were you are on your knees when you were begging and pleading with the Jets? 

 

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As with any disaster, there are multiple contributing factors-

1. Becton being too big to hold up in the NFL. 

2. JD taking him anyway.

3.  Becton not doing a good enough job staying in shape after he was picked. 

4.  JD passing on All Pro Wirfs, the perfect RT. 

5. The Jets bumbling medical staff who should be replaced now.  Given his size his knee should have operated on last year, particularly after it did not heal as initial forecast  

6.  Becton opening his mouth and bringing attention to himself and his flaws. 
 

JD has scored bonus picks for players he was able to unload.  It’s time now for him to return the favor and give up picks to put a decent OL in front of ZW so we can see what we got and not end up with another Darnold.   That is the top priority.   We don’t need guys like Rankins, Zuniga, Mims or Davis, Bryce Hall, etc if we can convert them to OT this year.  

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6 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Morgan Moses says hello.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

Morgan Moses wanted to start.  He wasn't getting that opportunity here without an injury.  No amount of money will replace the desire of a professional athlete to play when he wants to play.  Very few professional athletes - or any athlete - wants to watch other people play in his or her place.  I don't understand why that is so hard to understand.  Moses didn't sign elsewhere because JD didn't want him.  The Jets were stating publicly and I'm sure privately that Fant and Becton were the starting tackles back in March.  That was the plan.  Moses did not want to be a back up again. He signed a one year prove it deal last year so he could get the opportunity he got with Baltimore.  Let it go.

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4 minutes ago, freestater said:

I'm always right, buddy. Just takes the deluded longer to see it. By no means did I want to be right on this, but that doesn’t make me desire to run around with wishful thinking guiding my logic. I begged and pleaded for the Jets to not enter thus season relying on a guy who has proven unreliable. At such an important position, with the progress of our young signal-caller in the balance, to cling to the idea that right tackle was all set because we have Big Ticket over there was ludicrous. All evidence pointed to it. Some just didn't want to admit it. Unfortunately it seems our GM was among them. 

Blaming the GM before you see what the roster looks like to start the season is flawed logic.

While I agree, I had little faith Becton would play this year (I hoped he would) I'm not going to judge JD until I see what he does now.

You really don't know if he has trades in place for this contingent (which is certainly possible) and he's about to sign a 2021 pro-bowl LT to the roster.  
 

Let's see what he does before we judge him.  

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Just now, JiFapono said:

Were you are on your knees when you were begging and pleading with the Jets? 

 

Kicked back with a scotch and a smoke. 

When the Jets are paying the mortgage over here, they'll get the kneeling treatment. Until then, they're just like all the other freeloaders. 

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Well least we know longer have to wonder  why it took so long for him to come back. He obviously has some underlying issue with his knees or the initial  injury was way worse than anyone thought, plus he’s a big dude and that doesn’t help on a weight bearing joint. Saleh pretty much down played it  it both times, don’t blame him, I wouldn’t want to acknowledge it  at first either in his shoes . So I guess? NMU! 

I don't think it helps your GM's negotiating position to break down in tears at the podium and curse the heavens that your starting tackle's leg just fell off...

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3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

This is step 1 ... now either Max Mitchell steps up or they trade for a real RT.

Yes, this is step 1 as it locks in a 2021 pro-bowl LT.   You can move Fant back to RT...

and now we need to make a trade for a NFL caliber swing T/back up.

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2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, this is step 1 as it locks in a 2021 pro-bowl LT.   You can move Fant back to RT...

and now we need to make a trade for a NFL caliber swing T/back up.

The staff doesn’t seem to want to move Fant to RT and he apparently prefers to play LT

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, this is step 1 as it locks in a 2021 pro-bowl LT.   You can move Fant back to RT...

and now we need to make a trade for a NFL caliber swing T/back up.

Pro-bowl is a popularity contest... Brown is solid but average at best. He is certainly better then the rest of the team but moving Fant (where he excels) to RT is a mistake. I think the play is to keep fant and get mediocre play on the RT rather than mediocre play at LT and RT.

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9 hours ago, undertow said:

When that positivity turns into getting triggered when people disagree with your football opinions or threats of being banned for being too "negative" we have have reached epic proportions of delusion and cult territory.  People need to stop acting like children and have sports debates like big boys.

It was never a sports debate.  It was thread after thread of fat jokes 

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Blaming the GM before you see what the roster looks like to start the season is flawed logic.

While I agree, I had little faith Becton would play this year (I hoped he would) I'm not going to judge JD until I see what he does now.

You really don't know if he has trades in place for this contingent (which is certainly possible) and he's about to sign a 2021 pro-bowl LT to the roster.  
 

Let's see what he does before we judge him.  

Second line is completely fair. I'm in favor of signing Brown. Would've much rather retained Moses, but I understand he wanted to start. I get that one. Let's see how he fixes it. 

As for the last line, aren't we all here engaged in a perpetual debate on our judgements of each move or occurrence that happens to thus team? Don't we all do precisely that on a daily basis? I must say, if we restrained ourselves to that standard I'm not even sure we could debate the merits of which uniforms we prefer. 

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5 minutes ago, GangGreened said:

The staff doesn’t seem to want to move Fant to RT and he apparently prefers to play LT

Well, Fant was good at LT last year - but he's played RT and Brown was a pro-bowl LT last year.

They move Fant to RT, who will be fine there - and allow Brown to play the position he has for the past 14 years.

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/04/building-becton-how-louisville-turned-mekhi-becton-into-one-of-the-countrys-best-linemen-in-just-one-year/
 

interwsting look back into his routine at Louisville. They amount of maintenance that was going to be required for him to make it in the league was never going to be possible. This pick is on Douglas. Too many flags.

Wirfs was always the pick. Tom Brady is still laughing at how bad the Jets are at personnel decisions.  We had Sanchez, needed help, drafted Wilson. He got Gronk.    Now he gets Wirfs.  90 percent of all experts had Wirfs in front of Becton but the RT/LT argument will come in play. BS, we chose a poorly tested overweight player over a player who can jump out of a swimming pool.  JD is suspect. 

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15 hours ago, derp said:

I think he’d already talked to the medical staff. There’s easy stuff they can do to test for tears to ACL, MCL, PCL, LCL, and Achilles - but obviously it’s not perfect. I imagine the medical staff did all that and told Saleh it didn’t reveal any tears, thus his comment.  That’s why I posted he should’ve said something like “Initial tests didn’t reveal structural damage” and not “there was no structural damage”.

I’m not good enough with cap but can’t they convert base to bonus and then prorate it? Maybe too late in the year. There aren’t many guys they can do that with who they probably won’t cut next year but they can take the dead hit a little later. Mosley, Lawson, Davis. They could cut Rankins too.

 

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’m awful with the cap, but I think cutting Rankins, Mike White, etc doesn’t get them all that close. I think they either have to rework a big contract or agree to sign Brown for multiple years. @Sperm Edwards would have a better idea, and off the top of his head, to boot

First and foremost they can backload any future contract with phony 2nd/3rd seasons. If the player prefers it to be one year as a condition of the signing, they can make it a player opt-out (or a team or player opt-out, I’d imagine). So say Brown wants $16MM for the season (just to make up a number; naturally for the team’s benefit we prefer less, especially given his age). Sign him to a 3-year deal (total amount is irrelevant, whether $25MM or $75MM); $16MM guaranteed at signing with all of that $16MM payable in year 1; max out (~$15MM?) of that guarantee/y1 payout is signing bonus prorated over 3 seasons ($5MM x 3); the balance is his veteran minimum as base salary (about $1MM). This year’s hit would then be $6MM.

Yes that means next year if they cut him (or if/when he or the team opt-out) it’d be a dead $10MM but it is what it is. If you pay a guy $16MM then $16MM has to come off the cap; all the GM can control, within limits, is how much of that $16MM hits now vs. later.

I’ve no idea what Brown is demanding, but if he’s coming in as a day 1 starter it’s more than if he’s coming in as a reserve with a promise to “compete” for a job (like Moses a year ago). The longer this goes on, if he’s still unsigned, the cheaper he’ll be; but the team’s not in a position to wait anymore. Beggars can’t be choosers & all that. 

Unless it’s money that’s been paid so far (i.e. March bonus $) I don’t think it’s too late to rework anyone else’s deal (Mosley the most notable) to effectively do the same with him: convert upcoming salary to bonus instead. It doesn’t lower what they pay Mosley, but it does push much of the hit for it off to next year. What that does, in effect, is make his 2023 departure no longer a pure cap savings no-brainer (so he’d probably be agreeable to doing it, but they may have to sweeten it a little to make up for the income tax offset; see below*). Same with Lawson, who’s otherwise a clean cap break after the season. Lastly they could extend Fant to lower his number some, though his next deal will be so much higher it’s not going to whittle it down to nothing. Ditto McGovern, if they want to keep him beyond this season, too. (It’d make sense to do with one, imo, so they’re not potentially shopping for upwards of 2 starting tackles and a starting center come March). Rankins should have to really prove his worth this month, because they may decide they’re better off spending his $5MM towards a starting tackle without muddying up 2023 by $10MM with other current players.

* the tax offset with fronting existing players salary to bonus isn’t the no-brainer for players that you might think; particularly for those like Mosley & Lawson, whose 2022 seasons’ compensations are 100% guaranteed already. I mean, if the Jets played in a no-tax state, they’d take it before the team reconsidered (better to get $ now > $ later unless you’re an Iverson). But with the Jets, the up-front bonus is taxed at the high state income tax rate, whereas they’d pay a lower rate (or a 0% rate) on game checks on road games in other states with different tax rates. Like when we play Miami & Seattle (0%), you’re talking about ~10% of that game check going to the state instead of to the player’s pocket, which is a ~$100K per game loss to the likes of Mosley or Lawson who make approx $1MM per game. PA’s rate is still just 3% so that’d be another $70K loss for the Steelers game; Colorado (4.6%), Ohio (4.8%), MA (5%) = about $50K each game; WI another $20K. MN isn’t so much less; call it a wash since I’m using very rounded #s here for 2 players with different contracts. But total you’re talking about pushing say a little over $400K in additional income taxes paid by the player in order to get all but a minimum $1MM base salary fronted as signing bonus in NJ (~11%). So the team might have to sweeten the pot a little to do it. It’s offset a little bit, I guess, by getting it up front before it deflates at a pace of at least 0.5%/mo or whatever inflation will still be through the rest of FY2022 (not even bordering on my area of expertise; look elsewhere for that lol). 

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/04/building-becton-how-louisville-turned-mekhi-becton-into-one-of-the-countrys-best-linemen-in-just-one-year/
 

interwsting look back into his routine at Louisville. They amount of maintenance that was going to be required for him to make it in the league was never going to be possible. This pick is on Douglas. Too many flags.

I think it's also important to keep in mind this was the covid year so no combine and no in-person visits. Could be why the 2020 draft looks so different from our last 2.

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