***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD

[Scott Dierking]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Eh.  It was tongue-in-cheek when created.  Some of the key contributors who took it super seriously certainly proved themselves to be idiots, but after Douglas mostly botched the 2020 draft there were legitimate concerns at the time.

Now it just looks silly, and I'm glad for that.  TYJDTY!

Someone had 333 posts in this thread. But he BMW'ed outta here.

[Jetsfan80]

On 11/7/2022 at 3:38 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Someone had 333 posts in this thread. But he BMW'ed outta here.

 

[BigRy56]

I can’t believe this was ever even a think. Joe D is the man

[Bowles Movement]

This thread has not aged well.  The posters that have been calling for Zacs head ought to come back here and read the stuff that they have posted about Douglas.

[doitny]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

and he will never come back. if you think your "eat crow" thread was big his would be 50 pages long. he wanted JD gone before his 2nd draft. he will never come back to eat that crow.

[southparkcpa]

19 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

I can’t believe this was ever even a think. Joe D is the man

Perhaps the biggest GM comeback in history??? A 2020 draft that was a BUST.  Now 2 drafts with real players. 

 

Potentially 3 Rookie of the year candidates if Hall stayed healthy.  Hall, Gardner, Wilson. Johnson for 1st 4 picks???

Have we seen a better draft?? Ever?

 

I get the Revis year etc,, but this is strong.

 

 

[greenwichjetfan]

On 9/7/2022 at 8:37 PM, maury77 said:

You must not be familiar with my posts if you think I'm giving Douglas a pass for drafting Zach Wilson, I was one of the loudest people here during the draft process about how bad of a pick I thought it would be. 

I almost get offended these days when I don't get lumped in with @jgb @munchmemory and @Jetsfan80

Hey! Me too! I was probably the first in the draft forums to talk about how Trevor is not the generational talent they all want him to be, that Zach has tremendous flaws and should not be on our radar, and that if we want to go QB with #2 overall, it should be Justin. I feel like @JiFapono is the only one that remembers. 

[Maxman]

20 hours ago, BigRy56 said:

I can’t believe this was ever even a think. Joe D is the man

Joe Douglas is the best thing that has happened to this team in forever. Thinking otherwise, leaves me with no words.

[LSJF]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Hey! Me too! I was probably the first in the draft forums to talk about how Trevor is not the generational talent they all want him to be, that Zach has tremendous flaws and should not be on our radar, and that if we want to go QB with #2 overall, it should be Justin. I feel like @JiFapono is the only one that remembers. 

 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

Joe Douglas is the best thing that has happened to this team in forever. Thinking otherwise, leaves me with no words.

He's meaningfully better than any of his recent predecessors.  No question IMO.

Far from perfect, but a hell of alot closer to it than say, Mike Mac was.

He has earned more time in the job and some patience in my book.  I'd like to see how this story continues.

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, Bowles Movement said:

This thread has not aged well.  The posters that have been calling for Zacs head ought to come back here and read the stuff that they have posted about Douglas.

It is not all the same people that have called for Douglas, that have called for Zach. That is an oversimplification.

Sport (whether as a player, or as a builded of a team) is a difficult challenge for a firs timer. There are far few that get out of the gate early. 

Personally, I have jumped to judgements early in a career or a tenure. Quite often my initial guess based upon my "trained" eyes was off. This is a reason I do not try to cast early suggestions. I still fail.

This being a message board, I understand the want to make pronouncements. But I would advise to not dig in so hard. 

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He's meaningfully better than any of his recent predecessors.  No question IMO.

Far from perfect, but a hell of alot closer to it than say, Mike Mac was.

He has earned more time in the job and some patience in my book.  I'd like to see how this story continues.

Has there ever been a "perfect" GM?

[Warfish]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Has there ever been a "perfect" GM?

A few got close, but no, of course not.

I think you understand that comment really means "he's made some bad moves too, especially in Free Agency".  I don't think the current success means we should forget several poor earlier decisions didn't happen.  It's all part of what we evaluate, the whole package, and that evaluation evolves as time, and new moves, plays out.

[Maxman]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He's meaningfully better than any of his recent predecessors.  No question IMO.

Far from perfect, but a hell of alot closer to it than say, Mike Mac was.

He has earned more time in the job and some patience in my book.  I'd like to see how this story continues.

40 year extension. That is what he deserves. 

[Scott Dierking]

34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

A few got close, but no, of course not.

I think you understand that comment really means "he's made some bad moves too, especially in Free Agency".  I don't think the current success means we should forget several poor earlier decisions didn't happen.  It's all part of what we evaluate, the whole package, and that evaluation evolves as time, and new moves, plays out.

My own personal equation is that football GMing is graded 65% on the draft, and 25% on free agency and trades and 10% on staff and hires. Again, this is a personal equation and I respect that others will see it in other ways.

My thought is that you make your culture and build your backbone of a team on young players and the culture that you engrain in them. For that, Douglas is a B+ or an A- in that piece. His first draft, for whatever reason was not a boon. But, since he has, at this short view hit home runs, if not a grand slam or two.

Free agency, if you satisfy quotient one (drafting) is just a supplemental piece to the process where you get unicorns that you do not have fit on your team. I would consider Mosely this type. As hopefully the core young Jets show more, free agency will be more and more specific and the Jets will not need to cast as wide a net. As with most GMs, FA for Douglas has been a mixed bag. 

The final piece of team building, hires and personnel, seeming Douglas has done well. I know he has boosted analytics and personnel scouting. Seemingly, that has paid off. Saleh is still an unknown, but trending very positively.

Of course, we all want to "see how this plays out", which is a lot more positive that "he needs to be fired now". 

[undertow]

JD has done a great job of building this orginization.... I probably would have jumped on the bandwagon sooner if his first year of player aquisitions weren't terrible.

[Jetsfan80]

46 minutes ago, undertow said:

JD has done a great job of building this orginization.... I probably would have jumped on the bandwagon sooner if his first year of player aquisitions weren't terrible.

Even then, in his first year on the job (plus some moves he made in 2019 after he took the job), while busy tearing down all of Macc's many mistakes, he still acquired the following who have proven useful:

• Bryce Huff (UDFA)
• George Fant (FA)
• Braxton Berrios (FA)
• Connor McGovern (FA)
• JFM (FA)
• Denzel Mims (Draft)
• Braden Mann (Draft)

Not too shabby.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Of course, we all want to "see how this plays out", which is a lot more positive that "he needs to be fired now". 

Hell yeah it is ?

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

This thread has not aged well.  The posters that have been calling for Zacs head ought to come back here and read the stuff that they have posted about Douglas.

And then remember that they did the same thing with Saleh.  
Worse

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

He's meaningfully better than any of his recent predecessors.  No question IMO.

Far from perfect, but a hell of alot closer to it than say, Mike Mac was.

He has earned more time in the job and some patience in my book.  I'd like to see how this story continues.

Recent?   Name any Jet GM who was better.  
No GM is perfect.  He’s earned a hell of a lot more than more time and patience.  GM isn’t one of those jobs that you review every year to determine if he’s capable of not.  
 

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

He's meaningfully better than any of his recent predecessors.  No question IMO.

Far from perfect, but a hell of alot closer to it than say, Mike Mac was.

He has earned more time in the job and some patience in my book.  I'd like to see how this story continues.

Absolutely.

He's now afforded himself the ability to make some mistakes and take some chances too.  That's important.  He isn't "managing scared" which a lot of guys do, afraid to make a mistake and lose their jobs.  JD had a vision, knew it would take time, got himself a 6 year deal PRECISELY so that he'd have the time to do both the tear down AND the build up.  If he was on a typical 4-year deal he'd be a lame duck RIGHT NOW in this season praying that the Jets start to win so that he earns another contract.

JD is turning out to be a good custodian of this team, not trying to win fans over by throwing $100M at some free agent, not chasing recycled guys like Le'Veon Bell, etc.  He's building a young team that's both talented and still a bit economical with many guys still on their rookie deals.

If the Jets continue to look good and win games his challenge will transition from trying to right a ship to how to manage success and keep the core pieces here in the years ahead.

For once, it seems like we have stability.  All but guaranteed that the same GM, HC, QB will be here next season.  It's been rare to have ALL three of those consistent without at least some question about one of them each season (Bowles, Macc, Gase, Darnold, etc.).

[LSJF]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Even then, in his first year on the job (plus some moves he made in 2019 after he took the job), while busy tearing down all of Macc's many mistakes, he still acquired the following who have proven useful:

• Bryce Huff (UDFA)
• George Fant (FA)
• Braxton Berrios (FA)
• Connor McGovern (FA)
• JFM (FA)
• Denzel Mims (Draft)
• Braden Mann (Draft)

Not too shabby.

Ashtyn Davis in very limited time has made some key plays this year... Punt fake run etc

Everyone thought Becton was a stud, who knows if he eventually gets it together

Bryce Hall is still valuable still but has two studs in front of him

 

Cameron Clarke - unfortunate injury , not cause he sucked

James Morgan, ok he sucked

L Perine, oh well , worth drafting

[PepPep]

But, but, but the 2020 DRAAAAAAAAFT!!!!!!!

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Has there ever been a "perfect" GM?

Not even close.  Ozzie Newsome's stellar draft record also includes the following:

• Kyle Boller (1st rounder)
• Breshad Perriman (1st rounder)
• SS Matt Elam (1st rounder)
• WR Travis Taylor (1st rounder)
• LB Sergio Kindle (2nd rounder)
• LB Dan Cody (2nd rounder)
• WR Mark Clayton (1st rounder)
• WR Patrick Johnson (2nd rounder)
• LB Kamalei Correa (2nd rounder)
• CB DeRon Jenkins (2nd rounder)
• TE Maxx Williams (2nd rounder)
• NT Terrence Cody (2nd rounder)
• RB Musa Smith (3rd rounder)
• RB Jay Graham (3rd rounder)

 

And he also signed/acquired the following:

• RB Mike Anderson (4-year deal in 2005; rushed for 254 total yards and 1 TD)
• WR Frank Sanders (4-year deal in 2003; made 14 catches in 13 games, released after 1 season)
• CB Dominique Foxworth (4-year deal in 2009; picked off 4 passes in 18 games, retired 3 years after signing)
• WR Lee Evans (acquired for 4th round pick in 2012; made 4 catches, dropped key AFC Title game pass)
• S Michael Huff (signed to 3-year deal in 2013; was released two months into the season)

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, LSJF said:

Ashtyn Davis in very limited time has made some key plays this year... Punt fake run etc

Everyone thought Becton was a stud, who knows if he eventually gets it together

Bryce Hall is still valuable still but has two studs in front of him

 

Cameron Clarke - unfortunate injury , not cause he sucked

James Morgan, ok he sucked

L Perine, oh well , worth drafting

 

The Perine pick was dumb because he lacked much of any upside.  His ceiling was Bilal Powell, and it's not really wise to use a 4th on a guy like that.

But otherwise the process was pretty good in the 2020 class, and process matters a lot.

[maury77]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

Joe Douglas is the best thing that has happened to this team in forever. Thinking otherwise, leaves me with no words.

Definitely the best since the creation of this website. ?

[doitny]

2 hours ago, LSJF said:

Ashtyn Davis in very limited time has made some key plays this year... Punt fake run etc

Everyone thought Becton was a stud, who knows if he eventually gets it together

Bryce Hall is still valuable still but has two studs in front of him

 

Cameron Clarke - unfortunate injury , not cause he sucked

James Morgan, ok he sucked

L Perine, oh well , worth drafting

all these guys we part of his worst draft which was for a Adam Gase team. you got to wonder how much influence he had over those picks. Gase hired JD so he might have had more influence than if it was the other way around. 

[BRONX DUDE]

6 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Perhaps the biggest GM comeback in history??? A 2020 draft that was a BUST.  Now 2 drafts with real players. 

 

Potentially 3 Rookie of the year candidates if Hall stayed healthy.  Hall, Gardner, Wilson. Johnson for 1st 4 picks???

Have we seen a better draft?? Ever?

 

I get the Revis year etc,, but this is strong.

 

 

HEY MAYBE THE NFL CAN MAKE THAT AN AWARD?? COME_BACK GM OF THE YEARS.

Good thought CPA guy.

 

[65 Toss Power Trap]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Even then, in his first year on the job (plus some moves he made in 2019 after he took the job), while busy tearing down all of Macc's many mistakes, he still acquired the following who have proven useful:

• Bryce Huff (UDFA)
• George Fant (FA)
• Braxton Berrios (FA)
• Connor McGovern (FA)
• JFM (FA)
• Denzel Mims (Draft)
• Braden Mann (Draft)

Not too shabby.

I'm glad you posted this. Due to the 2020 draft, some of us make the mistake of thinking he started making good moves in 2021.

I'm extremely impressed with who he's got off waivers (Braxton, Quincey, Nate Herbig, I'm sure others I'm not thinking of).

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

I'm glad you posted this. Due to the 2020 draft, some of us make the mistake of thinking he started making good moves in 2021.

I'm extremely impressed with who he's got off waivers (Braxton, Quincey, Nate Herbig, I'm sure others I'm not thinking of).

@BornJetsFan1983 dreams of the day when Braxton Berrios isn't considered a quality signing.  

[Jethead]

On 11/9/2022 at 1:34 PM, Warfish said:

He's meaningfully better than any of his recent predecessors.  No question IMO.

Far from perfect, but a hell of alot closer to it than say, Mike Mac was.

He has earned more time in the job and some patience in my book.  I'd like to see how this story continues.

Your inner curmudgeon is showing. He's the best GM the Jets have had since Weeb (2 rings). And seems to be a learning organism to boot. Extend this beast!

[Biggs]

At some point in the future this thread will be spot on.  The worm always turns. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:55 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

Not even close.  Ozzie Newsome's stellar draft record also includes the following:

• Kyle Boller (1st rounder)
• Breshad Perriman (1st rounder)
• SS Matt Elam (1st rounder)
• WR Travis Taylor (1st rounder)
• LB Sergio Kindle (2nd rounder)
• LB Dan Cody (2nd rounder)
• WR Mark Clayton (1st rounder)
• WR Patrick Johnson (2nd rounder)
• LB Kamalei Correa (2nd rounder)
• CB DeRon Jenkins (2nd rounder)
• TE Maxx Williams (2nd rounder)
• NT Terrence Cody (2nd rounder)
• RB Musa Smith (3rd rounder)
• RB Jay Graham (3rd rounder)

 

And he also signed/acquired the following:

• RB Mike Anderson (4-year deal in 2005; rushed for 254 total yards and 1 TD)
• WR Frank Sanders (4-year deal in 2003; made 14 catches in 13 games, released after 1 season)
• CB Dominique Foxworth (4-year deal in 2009; picked off 4 passes in 18 games, retired 3 years after signing)
• WR Lee Evans (acquired for 4th round pick in 2012; made 4 catches, dropped key AFC Title game pass)
• S Michael Huff (signed to 3-year deal in 2013; was released two months into the season)

The reason smart GMs like Douglas try to accumulate picks is because even the best GMs draft plenty of busts. 

[freestater]

37 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The reason smart GMs like Douglas try to accumulate picks is because even the best GMs draft plenty of busts. 

[Scott Dierking]

And just so I get my just praise in this thread, everything was put in motion with my ask for Neil Glat to step aside:

Less than a month later, Douglas is hired, a true football blue blood placed in a position where he is empowered with the on field activities.

A little over 3 months after the post, Neil Glat in fact does step away. 

The Jets finally positioned things correctly. ?