2021 Jets = too much new, all at once

[Sperm Edwards]

Ultimately it's not any one thing. It's all of them at once, and one of them influencing another is the core of why the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. For example, other teams have had a single awful offensive lineman before. They've even had two who were so lowly rated/ranked. The problem is everything else isn't remotely in place, so they can't possibly handle & cover for it. I glossed over it in another thread:

1. QB = Wilson's a rookie who typically worked out of shotgun, and - despite the attributes that made him a good prospect, like a very fast release and accuracy while doing so - has only worked in one offense and was able to do a lot of college'y things with impunity before he got here, like running backwards to avoid pressure, and many lengthy stare-downs which are really two problems: telegraphing the play to the defense and holding the ball too long. They're all fixable, rookie QBs make mistakes, and he needs to work through them; but with so many other things going on here he looks even worse and his uphill climb even steeper:
2. LT = Becton was initially out of shape or whatever since we never got straight answers, then returned and got schooled by his own edge rusher in practice or opposing edge rusher in scrimmages. Then he got injured halfway through week 1. Fant then took over, but he was playing the other side the whole summer (except not really; more on that below). I'm not nearly buying his notion as though it's like a righty throwing lefty, but will acknowledge there's an adjustment period. 
3. LG = AVT missed all 3 preseason games. Looked totally lost week 1, but has since settled. 
4. C = McGovern is just a horrible center. While certainly not a great center with Denver before this, he didn't look nearly this bad in 2019 even when sandwiched between a weak rookie LG Risner and a has-been RG Leary (whose career ended after 2019).
5. RG = GVR. Missed a lot of snaps this summer in a 4-headed guard competition between him, Clark, Lewis, and Feeney (and who knows how may, if any, snaps were also given to Edoga or anyone else initially). 
6. RT = Moses lost a camp competition to Fant. What that means is neither was getting all the snaps needed while installing a new system, and each probably received even less than GVR got at RG next to them. Then Fant had to switch sides when Becton went down in week 1. A cluster****. 
7. WR group is a mess.
   1. New addition Davis was, if anything, sure-handed in Tennessee. Now he has no hands at all.
   2. Mims has been discussed plenty, but it's enough to say he's not on the field.
   3. Moore missed weeks of the summer himself, then wasn't playing to his speed (thinking about scheme too much?), had hands issues of his own suddenly develop, and then got concussed.
   4. Crowder (badly undervalued by the fanbase all spring/summer) is a weird one of late; he was never an ironman but it's definitely a head-scratcher so far & couldn't possibly be so hurt he can't see the field at all since getting over covid (even while there was an extra active spot with Mims being deactivated yet again himself).
   5. Cole was supposed to be so good we didn't need Crowder anymore, since he was also more physical, and he's mostly been a ghost, only seeing action after Moore went down.
   6. Berrios is the only one playing well above expectations. Snicker all you want about him; he probably doesn't have the talent of any of the above 5, but has created enough separation in his role to get 21 targets in 3 games and reliably catch 14 of them. If only the other 5 all had his heart & dedication. 
8. RB group - some running talent here, but obvious issues with TJ picking up blitzes means he really shouldn't be on the field on passing downs until that's settled, making the play call too obvious to just have him out there on running downs. Carter looked good week 2, but by then was NE just protecting against the pass? Really, until the passing game starts doing some damage there isn't going to be much running room or consistency. Coleman is about what I'd expect given the circumstances, and ok as part of a committee. With a more legit passing threat and some better blocking he'd look a good amount better himself; but big whoop, what RB wouldn't?
9. TE group... (*crickets chirping*)

That's just the personnel. Ability-wise, there are some weak points, but the problem is all these weak points showing at once, and if there's anything compounding them. And there is:

1. OC = LaFleur's first year of a first-time OC, installing a new offense for the first time ever, calling plays for the first time ever. He came out of a successful program, but what's starting to show is something more. It's really the only offense he's coached much and, at age 34, doesn't seem to have a seasoned-enough background to be able to change things up when he doesn't have the personnel to run what he wants, on top of all these players running it for the first time, which itself is on top of how many didn't even get a full summer of working on it with the first team because of injuries and position competitions. 
2. HC = Saleh's first year of a first-time HC, mostly powerless to do anything to change it, since that's not his forte either. Saleh's only possible remedy to change to something simpler is to demote Mike LaFleur and promote Cavanaugh. Cavanaugh isn't the greatest of the great, but he's an experienced offensive coach with many years as a QBC and OC in several different systems. He's got enough experience in other schemes to change to something different, and LaFleur may not. Except even that is an extreme long shot because there's obviously a conflict in Saleh's personal relationship ("best friends") with Matt LaFleur. If he demotes his best friend's brother, after just a few games, personally awkward wouldn't even be strong enough language.  
3. Assistant coaches on offense:
   1. Knapp (RIP) had his life cut short suddenly
   2. QBC Calabrese is 31 and is in his first year as a QBC. He was a QBC/OC at Wagner from 2017-18, lol. Coaching a rookie QB, in a system he's never coached or played in himself. 
   3. OLC Benton is experienced in this scheme (or similar enough). Would seem to be a good and sensible hire. The problems with the OL may not be of his making.
   4. Assistant OLC Moreland is in his first year coaching in the NFL after being at mostly forgettable college programs.
   5. Cavanaugh came on late after Knapp's untimely passing. Good hire under the circumstances, but really he got here and then the season started like 5 minutes later.
   6. Miles Austin was a terrific receiver for a few years but at 37 is in his first year as a WRC and the early returns are pretty bad;
   7. Taylor Embree is 32, and in his first year as a RBC
   8. Middleton is an experienced TE coach, but...yeah he's just a TE coach, on a team without any discernible talent to exploit/feature at TE

Anyway there's so much new all at once, it's almost folly to point to just one of them. Problems with personnel quality, problems with missed time due to health and competition at too many positions at once, all on top of a lot of newness in the scheme for all involved except for LaFleur and Benton.

It was all poorly conceived, and only arrogance in doing so - plus blind optimism from the HC on down, and the fanbase - would expect non-failure given all of it at the same time. I suppose it should only get better as the newness gets less new, but there's a legit concern that Wilson's health and other things will hold up by then. 

I don't have a strong opinion on it, other than the strong opinion that this sucks. OK it's not an opinion; objectively this offense sucks. 

[kevinc855]

Excellent breakdown. This is, said much better then many of us, the concern about the youthfulness of this team. 

It seems sexy and new, but it has rarely worked. You then add on a young staff and the same problems develop. Saleh really needs to be the Alpha Male and get this team in line in all phases. Its going to a tough task. 

This is YOUR staff Saleh, hand picked, now its time to address who is performing and who is not. 

This Roster is JD and Saleh working together. They had confidence in it, they told us that. Now its not working, at all. Adjust and adjust quickly before this season gets out of hand. 

[JustInFudge]

Said it all offseason, rookie HC/OC/DC/QB and a young team.  This is going to be a very ugly season.  You just have to hope it starts getting better toward the end of the year and Zach gives you confidence he's the guy.

[HessStation]

The money spent on Davis and Cole when you’re going to draft WRs early which left Mims (one of the only few bright spots from last year) not even dressed while you start Guys like Van Roten, McGovern and Griffin or Kroft. 

[kmnj]

the problem is not too much new but too much bad

[HessStation]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Said it all offseason, rookie HC/OC/DC/QB and a young team.  This is going to be a very ugly season.  You just have to hope it starts getting better toward the end of the year and Zach gives you confidence he's the guy.

I would have been cool w everything they did besides starting Wilson instead of signing and starting a veteran and letting this year be a wash. That would have probably made the games more watchable while leaving a big amount of hope for fans waiting for Wilson to be ready. Jmo

[Stark]

5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Said it all offseason, rookie HC/OC/DC/QB and a young team.  This is going to be a very ugly season.  You just have to hope it starts getting better toward the end of the year and Zach gives you confidence he's the guy.

this.... too many fans on this board have expectations that are way, way too high... 

I don't expect to see much until after the BYE and even then I don't expect a lot. I am hopeful that this team really starts to find its rythym and gel the last half of the year but that is a hope. 

also Davis is overrated and not a real #1 WR which we still need to address. Davis can be a 2 but not a 1 as he showed in TN and is showing with his inability to make catches that you expect. 

[Doggin94it]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ultimately it's not any one thing. It's all of them at once, and one of them influencing another is the core of why the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. For example, other teams have had a single awful offensive lineman before. They've even had two who were so lowly rated/ranked. The problem is everything else isn't remotely in place, so they can't possibly handle & cover for it. I glossed over it in another thread:

1. QB = Wilson's a rookie who typically worked out of shotgun, and - despite the attributes that made him a good prospect, like a very fast release and accuracy while doing so - has only worked in one offense and was able to do a lot of college'y things with impunity before he got here, like running backwards to avoid pressure, and many lengthy stare-downs which are really two problems: telegraphing the play to the defense and holding the ball too long. They're all fixable, rookie QBs make mistakes, and he needs to work through them; but with so many other things going on here he looks even worse and his uphill climb even steeper:
2. LT = Becton was initially out of shape or whatever since we never got straight answers, then returned and got schooled by his own edge rusher in practice or opposing edge rusher in scrimmages. Then he got injured halfway through week 1. Fant then took over, but he was playing the other side the whole summer (except not really; more on that below). I'm not nearly buying his notion as though it's like a righty throwing lefty, but will acknowledge there's an adjustment period. 
3. LG = AVT missed all 3 preseason games. Looked totally lost week 1, but has since settled. 
4. C = McGovern is just a horrible center. While certainly not a great center with Denver before this, he didn't look nearly this bad in 2019 even when sandwiched between a weak rookie LG Risner and a has-been RG Leary (whose career ended after 2019).
5. RG = GVR. Missed a lot of snaps this summer in a 4-headed guard competition between him, Clark, Lewis, and Feeney (and who knows how may, if any, snaps were also given to Edoga or anyone else initially). 
6. RT = Moses lost a camp competition to Fant. What that means is neither was getting all the snaps needed while installing a new system, and each probably received even less than GVR got at RG next to them. Then Fant had to switch sides when Becton went down in week 1. A cluster****. 
7. WR group is a mess.
   1. New addition Davis was, if anything, sure-handed in Tennessee. Now he has no hands at all.
   2. Mims has been discussed plenty, but it's enough to say he's not on the field.
   3. Moore missed weeks of the summer himself, then wasn't playing to his speed (thinking about scheme too much?), had hands issues of his own suddenly develop, and then got concussed.
   4. Crowder (badly undervalued by the fanbase all spring/summer) is a weird one of late; he was never an ironman but it's definitely a head-scratcher so far & couldn't possibly be so hurt he can't see the field at all since getting over covid (even while there was an extra active spot with Mims being deactivated yet again himself).
   5. Cole was supposed to be so good we didn't need Crowder anymore, since he was also more physical, and he's mostly been a ghost, only seeing action after Moore went down.
   6. Berrios is the only one playing well above expectations. Snicker all you want about him; he probably doesn't have the talent of any of the above 5, but has created enough separation in his role to get 21 targets in 3 games and reliably catch 14 of them. If only the other 5 all had his heart & dedication. 
8. RB group - some running talent here, but obvious issues with TJ picking up blitzes means he really shouldn't be on the field on passing downs until that's settled, making the play call too obvious to just have him out there on running downs. Carter looked good week 2, but by then was NE just protecting against the pass? Really, until the passing game starts doing some damage there isn't going to be much running room or consistency. Coleman is about what I'd expect given the circumstances, and ok as part of a committee. With a more legit passing threat and some better blocking he'd look a good amount better himself; but big whoop, what RB wouldn't?
9. TE group... (*crickets chirping*)

That's just the personnel. Ability-wise, there are some weak points, but the problem is all these weak points showing at once, and if there's anything compounding them. And there is:

1. OC = LaFleur's first year of a first-time OC, installing a new offense for the first time ever, calling plays for the first time ever. He came out of a successful program, but what's starting to show is something more. It's really the only offense he's coached much and, at age 34, doesn't seem to have a seasoned-enough background to be able to change things up when he doesn't have the personnel to run what he wants, on top of all these players running it for the first time, which itself is on top of how many didn't even get a full summer of working on it with the first team because of injuries and position competitions. 
2. HC = Saleh's first year of a first-time HC, mostly powerless to do anything to change it, since that's not his forte either. Saleh's only possible remedy to change to something simpler is to demote Mike LaFleur and promote Cavanaugh. Cavanaugh isn't the greatest of the great, but he's an experienced offensive coach with many years as a QBC and OC in several different systems. He's got enough experience in other schemes to change to something different, and LaFleur may not. Except even that is an extreme long shot because there's obviously a conflict in Saleh's personal relationship ("best friends") with Matt LaFleur. If he demotes his best friend's brother, after just a few games, personally awkward wouldn't even be strong enough language.  
3. Assistant coaches on offense:
   1. Knapp (RIP) had his life cut short suddenly
   2. QBC Calabrese is 31 and is in his first year as a QBC. He was a QBC/OC at Wagner from 2017-18, lol. Coaching a rookie QB, in a system he's never coached or played in himself. 
   3. OLC Benton is experienced in this scheme (or similar enough). Would seem to be a good and sensible hire. The problems with the OL may not be of his making.
   4. Assistant OLC Moreland is in his first year coaching in the NFL after being at mostly forgettable college programs.
   5. Cavanaugh came on late after Knapp's untimely passing. Good hire under the circumstances, but really he got here and then the season started like 5 minutes later.
   6. Miles Austin was a terrific receiver for a few years but at 37 is in his first year as a WRC and the early returns are pretty bad;
   7. Taylor Embree is 32, and in his first year as a RBC
   8. Middleton is an experienced TE coach, but...yeah he's just a TE coach, on a team without any discernible talent to exploit/feature at TE

Anyway there's so much new all at once, it's almost folly to point to just one of them. Problems with personnel quality, problems with missed time due to health and competition at too many positions at once, all on top of a lot of newness in the scheme for all involved except for LaFleur and Benton.

It was all poorly conceived, and only arrogance in doing so - plus blind optimism from the HC on down, and the fanbase - would expect non-failure given all of it at the same time. I suppose it should only get better as the newness gets less new, but there's a legit concern that Wilson's health and other things will hold up by then. 

I don't have a strong opinion on it, other than the strong opinion that this sucks. OK it's not an opinion; objectively this offense sucks. 

I think you're underestimating how hard the loss of Knapp hit this team. He was exactly the guy who was going to fill these gaps on the coaching staff - experienced in the system and more generally, trusted by Lafleur, etc. 

[joewilly12]

The 2021 NY Jets are worse than an expansion team. 

[bgivs21]

8 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Said it all offseason, rookie HC/OC/DC/QB and a young team.  This is going to be a very ugly season.  You just have to hope it starts getting better toward the end of the year and Zach gives you confidence he's the guy.

TBF, the defense and all the young pieces have impressed so far (even without Lawson). 

[RutgersJetFan]

Also: Sorcery.

[rangerous]

excellent write up.  i had no idea the coaching staff was so young.  i knew saleh and lafleur were newbies but they also filled out the staff with a lot of inexperienced people.  kind of explains why the wr's aren't getting that open.

[TheClashFan]

I really expected the Jets to start badly. Rookie QB, rookie OC, rooking HC is a recipe for starting badly.  Losing these three games is fine, but the level of incompetence being seen on offense is a bit shocking.  I worry that they are damaging their new QB. He's not blameless, but seeing what Darnold is doing so far should be a wakeup call. 

#1 priority is do whatever it takes to protect Wilson...starting with a better game plan.  Maybe use "max protection" on most passing plays...always keeping a RB or TE to help block.  Stuff like the silly short yardage five wide packages need to go bye bye.

If the team is still this bad at midseason...

 

[ZachEY]

This is the wildly optimistic take that should carry me to about 1:18pm EST on Sunday, October, 3rd.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Said it all offseason, rookie HC/OC/DC/QB and a young team.  This is going to be a very ugly season.  You just have to hope it starts getting better toward the end of the year and Zach gives you confidence he's the guy.

The big problem I see is that the talent surrounding ZW is so bad that we wont be able to determine if he is indeed the "man" until its time to pay him.

In other words, we're gonna Darnold this kid.

[bgivs21]

Mims is a microcosm for how this CS is handling this offense. They expect every player to know every aspect of the playbook before they get on the field. It is clear that none of the players on offense know the full playbook. 

The CS needs to peel it back and focus on learning chunks of the playbook at a time and work in the rest throughout the season. They've clearly thrown everything at these guys at once and they're all over thinking when they get in live action. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, bgivs21 said:

Mims is a microcosm for how this CS is handling this offense. They expect every player to know every aspect of the playbook before they get on the field. It is clear that none of the players on offense know the full playbook. 

The CS needs to peel it back and focus on learning chunks of the playbook at a time and work in the rest throughout the season. They've clearly thrown everything at these guys at once and they're all over thinking when they get in live action. 

Yes.  They are more focused on the culture and the process and ‘how they practice’ than they are on what happens in the games.  They are fine calling out mims for not knowing every route, but say nothing when davis, moore and ty johnson drop passes and when van rotten and mcgovern miss blocks.  They may have fallen in love with their training camp and all the good vibes with their practices, etc, but now they’ve got to score points. And that means improvising and deviating from their kumbaya plans.

[Drums]

Great post, completely agree. I found it hard to point to anyone yesterday and say “this is why we lost!” Nope, everything was bad. 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ultimately it's not any one thing. It's all of them at once, and one of them influencing another is the core of why the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. For example, other teams have had a single awful offensive lineman before. They've even had two who were so lowly rated/ranked. The problem is everything else isn't remotely in place, so they can't possibly handle & cover for it. I glossed over it in another thread:

1. QB = Wilson's a rookie who typically worked out of shotgun, and - despite the attributes that made him a good prospect, like a very fast release and accuracy while doing so - has only worked in one offense and was able to do a lot of college'y things with impunity before he got here, like running backwards to avoid pressure, and many lengthy stare-downs which are really two problems: telegraphing the play to the defense and holding the ball too long. They're all fixable, rookie QBs make mistakes, and he needs to work through them; but with so many other things going on here he looks even worse and his uphill climb even steeper:
2. LT = Becton was initially out of shape or whatever since we never got straight answers, then returned and got schooled by his own edge rusher in practice or opposing edge rusher in scrimmages. Then he got injured halfway through week 1. Fant then took over, but he was playing the other side the whole summer (except not really; more on that below). I'm not nearly buying his notion as though it's like a righty throwing lefty, but will acknowledge there's an adjustment period. 
3. LG = AVT missed all 3 preseason games. Looked totally lost week 1, but has since settled. 
4. C = McGovern is just a horrible center. While certainly not a great center with Denver before this, he didn't look nearly this bad in 2019 even when sandwiched between a weak rookie LG Risner and a has-been RG Leary (whose career ended after 2019).
5. RG = GVR. Missed a lot of snaps this summer in a 4-headed guard competition between him, Clark, Lewis, and Feeney (and who knows how may, if any, snaps were also given to Edoga or anyone else initially). 
6. RT = Moses lost a camp competition to Fant. What that means is neither was getting all the snaps needed while installing a new system, and each probably received even less than GVR got at RG next to them. Then Fant had to switch sides when Becton went down in week 1. A cluster****. 
7. WR group is a mess.
   1. New addition Davis was, if anything, sure-handed in Tennessee. Now he has no hands at all.
   2. Mims has been discussed plenty, but it's enough to say he's not on the field.
   3. Moore missed weeks of the summer himself, then wasn't playing to his speed (thinking about scheme too much?), had hands issues of his own suddenly develop, and then got concussed.
   4. Crowder (badly undervalued by the fanbase all spring/summer) is a weird one of late; he was never an ironman but it's definitely a head-scratcher so far & couldn't possibly be so hurt he can't see the field at all since getting over covid (even while there was an extra active spot with Mims being deactivated yet again himself).
   5. Cole was supposed to be so good we didn't need Crowder anymore, since he was also more physical, and he's mostly been a ghost, only seeing action after Moore went down.
   6. Berrios is the only one playing well above expectations. Snicker all you want about him; he probably doesn't have the talent of any of the above 5, but has created enough separation in his role to get 21 targets in 3 games and reliably catch 14 of them. If only the other 5 all had his heart & dedication. 
8. RB group - some running talent here, but obvious issues with TJ picking up blitzes means he really shouldn't be on the field on passing downs until that's settled, making the play call too obvious to just have him out there on running downs. Carter looked good week 2, but by then was NE just protecting against the pass? Really, until the passing game starts doing some damage there isn't going to be much running room or consistency. Coleman is about what I'd expect given the circumstances, and ok as part of a committee. With a more legit passing threat and some better blocking he'd look a good amount better himself; but big whoop, what RB wouldn't?
9. TE group... (*crickets chirping*)

That's just the personnel. Ability-wise, there are some weak points, but the problem is all these weak points showing at once, and if there's anything compounding them. And there is:

1. OC = LaFleur's first year of a first-time OC, installing a new offense for the first time ever, calling plays for the first time ever. He came out of a successful program, but what's starting to show is something more. It's really the only offense he's coached much and, at age 34, doesn't seem to have a seasoned-enough background to be able to change things up when he doesn't have the personnel to run what he wants, on top of all these players running it for the first time, which itself is on top of how many didn't even get a full summer of working on it with the first team because of injuries and position competitions. 
2. HC = Saleh's first year of a first-time HC, mostly powerless to do anything to change it, since that's not his forte either. Saleh's only possible remedy to change to something simpler is to demote Mike LaFleur and promote Cavanaugh. Cavanaugh isn't the greatest of the great, but he's an experienced offensive coach with many years as a QBC and OC in several different systems. He's got enough experience in other schemes to change to something different, and LaFleur may not. Except even that is an extreme long shot because there's obviously a conflict in Saleh's personal relationship ("best friends") with Matt LaFleur. If he demotes his best friend's brother, after just a few games, personally awkward wouldn't even be strong enough language.  
3. Assistant coaches on offense:
   1. Knapp (RIP) had his life cut short suddenly
   2. QBC Calabrese is 31 and is in his first year as a QBC. He was a QBC/OC at Wagner from 2017-18, lol. Coaching a rookie QB, in a system he's never coached or played in himself. 
   3. OLC Benton is experienced in this scheme (or similar enough). Would seem to be a good and sensible hire. The problems with the OL may not be of his making.
   4. Assistant OLC Moreland is in his first year coaching in the NFL after being at mostly forgettable college programs.
   5. Cavanaugh came on late after Knapp's untimely passing. Good hire under the circumstances, but really he got here and then the season started like 5 minutes later.
   6. Miles Austin was a terrific receiver for a few years but at 37 is in his first year as a WRC and the early returns are pretty bad;
   7. Taylor Embree is 32, and in his first year as a RBC
   8. Middleton is an experienced TE coach, but...yeah he's just a TE coach, on a team without any discernible talent to exploit/feature at TE

Anyway there's so much new all at once, it's almost folly to point to just one of them. Problems with personnel quality, problems with missed time due to health and competition at too many positions at once, all on top of a lot of newness in the scheme for all involved except for LaFleur and Benton.

It was all poorly conceived, and only arrogance in doing so - plus blind optimism from the HC on down, and the fanbase - would expect non-failure given all of it at the same time. I suppose it should only get better as the newness gets less new, but there's a legit concern that Wilson's health and other things will hold up by then. 

I don't have a strong opinion on it, other than the strong opinion that this sucks. OK it's not an opinion; objectively this offense sucks. 

way to long dude.

New Head Coach - with a new roster and new QB - pushed the envelope into the sun by settling on a rookie OC who is 16 years old. 

There, you're welcome.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ultimately it's not any one thing. It's all of them at once, and one of them influencing another is the core of why the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. For example, other teams have had a single awful offensive lineman before. They've even had two who were so lowly rated/ranked. The problem is everything else isn't remotely in place, so they can't possibly handle & cover for it. I glossed over it in another thread:

1. QB = Wilson's a rookie who typically worked out of shotgun, and - despite the attributes that made him a good prospect, like a very fast release and accuracy while doing so - has only worked in one offense and was able to do a lot of college'y things with impunity before he got here, like running backwards to avoid pressure, and many lengthy stare-downs which are really two problems: telegraphing the play to the defense and holding the ball too long. They're all fixable, rookie QBs make mistakes, and he needs to work through them; but with so many other things going on here he looks even worse and his uphill climb even steeper:
2. LT = Becton was initially out of shape or whatever since we never got straight answers, then returned and got schooled by his own edge rusher in practice or opposing edge rusher in scrimmages. Then he got injured halfway through week 1. Fant then took over, but he was playing the other side the whole summer (except not really; more on that below). I'm not nearly buying his notion as though it's like a righty throwing lefty, but will acknowledge there's an adjustment period. 
3. LG = AVT missed all 3 preseason games. Looked totally lost week 1, but has since settled. 
4. C = McGovern is just a horrible center. While certainly not a great center with Denver before this, he didn't look nearly this bad in 2019 even when sandwiched between a weak rookie LG Risner and a has-been RG Leary (whose career ended after 2019).
5. RG = GVR. Missed a lot of snaps this summer in a 4-headed guard competition between him, Clark, Lewis, and Feeney (and who knows how may, if any, snaps were also given to Edoga or anyone else initially). 
6. RT = Moses lost a camp competition to Fant. What that means is neither was getting all the snaps needed while installing a new system, and each probably received even less than GVR got at RG next to them. Then Fant had to switch sides when Becton went down in week 1. A cluster****. 
7. WR group is a mess.
   1. New addition Davis was, if anything, sure-handed in Tennessee. Now he has no hands at all.
   2. Mims has been discussed plenty, but it's enough to say he's not on the field.
   3. Moore missed weeks of the summer himself, then wasn't playing to his speed (thinking about scheme too much?), had hands issues of his own suddenly develop, and then got concussed.
   4. Crowder (badly undervalued by the fanbase all spring/summer) is a weird one of late; he was never an ironman but it's definitely a head-scratcher so far & couldn't possibly be so hurt he can't see the field at all since getting over covid (even while there was an extra active spot with Mims being deactivated yet again himself).
   5. Cole was supposed to be so good we didn't need Crowder anymore, since he was also more physical, and he's mostly been a ghost, only seeing action after Moore went down.
   6. Berrios is the only one playing well above expectations. Snicker all you want about him; he probably doesn't have the talent of any of the above 5, but has created enough separation in his role to get 21 targets in 3 games and reliably catch 14 of them. If only the other 5 all had his heart & dedication. 
8. RB group - some running talent here, but obvious issues with TJ picking up blitzes means he really shouldn't be on the field on passing downs until that's settled, making the play call too obvious to just have him out there on running downs. Carter looked good week 2, but by then was NE just protecting against the pass? Really, until the passing game starts doing some damage there isn't going to be much running room or consistency. Coleman is about what I'd expect given the circumstances, and ok as part of a committee. With a more legit passing threat and some better blocking he'd look a good amount better himself; but big whoop, what RB wouldn't?
9. TE group... (*crickets chirping*)

That's just the personnel. Ability-wise, there are some weak points, but the problem is all these weak points showing at once, and if there's anything compounding them. And there is:

1. OC = LaFleur's first year of a first-time OC, installing a new offense for the first time ever, calling plays for the first time ever. He came out of a successful program, but what's starting to show is something more. It's really the only offense he's coached much and, at age 34, doesn't seem to have a seasoned-enough background to be able to change things up when he doesn't have the personnel to run what he wants, on top of all these players running it for the first time, which itself is on top of how many didn't even get a full summer of working on it with the first team because of injuries and position competitions. 
2. HC = Saleh's first year of a first-time HC, mostly powerless to do anything to change it, since that's not his forte either. Saleh's only possible remedy to change to something simpler is to demote Mike LaFleur and promote Cavanaugh. Cavanaugh isn't the greatest of the great, but he's an experienced offensive coach with many years as a QBC and OC in several different systems. He's got enough experience in other schemes to change to something different, and LaFleur may not. Except even that is an extreme long shot because there's obviously a conflict in Saleh's personal relationship ("best friends") with Matt LaFleur. If he demotes his best friend's brother, after just a few games, personally awkward wouldn't even be strong enough language.  
3. Assistant coaches on offense:
   1. Knapp (RIP) had his life cut short suddenly
   2. QBC Calabrese is 31 and is in his first year as a QBC. He was a QBC/OC at Wagner from 2017-18, lol. Coaching a rookie QB, in a system he's never coached or played in himself. 
   3. OLC Benton is experienced in this scheme (or similar enough). Would seem to be a good and sensible hire. The problems with the OL may not be of his making.
   4. Assistant OLC Moreland is in his first year coaching in the NFL after being at mostly forgettable college programs.
   5. Cavanaugh came on late after Knapp's untimely passing. Good hire under the circumstances, but really he got here and then the season started like 5 minutes later.
   6. Miles Austin was a terrific receiver for a few years but at 37 is in his first year as a WRC and the early returns are pretty bad;
   7. Taylor Embree is 32, and in his first year as a RBC
   8. Middleton is an experienced TE coach, but...yeah he's just a TE coach, on a team without any discernible talent to exploit/feature at TE

Anyway there's so much new all at once, it's almost folly to point to just one of them. Problems with personnel quality, problems with missed time due to health and competition at too many positions at once, all on top of a lot of newness in the scheme for all involved except for LaFleur and Benton.

It was all poorly conceived, and only arrogance in doing so - plus blind optimism from the HC on down, and the fanbase - would expect non-failure given all of it at the same time. I suppose it should only get better as the newness gets less new, but there's a legit concern that Wilson's health and other things will hold up by then. 

I don't have a strong opinion on it, other than the strong opinion that this sucks. OK it's not an opinion; objectively this offense sucks. 

I agree with all of this and a great assessment.

I can understand the youth movement here - it's part of JD's grand scheme.  JD's biggest problem is if he was going to do what they're doing...

You can NOT bring in a rookie QB - you either don't draft one or have him sitting..  Having the awareness to understand the team you're putting might possibly be the most important thing a GM can do.  Joe seems to have had a plan - but I think that's all it was.

No real understanding or self awareness.

[Maynard13]

They need to make some drastic changes PRONTO. Start with the OL.  Isnt there anyone else who can play center? Move McGovern to guard.  Could it possibly be any worse?  Get Mims on the field.  Use his skill set on designed plays, like streaks up the sidelines. He was quite effective at Baylor doing this.  Could it possibly hurt?  Bottom line is they need to do something to shake this up. I like the idea of having LaFleur step back and have Cavanaugh take over calling plays and adjusting the offense.  And they really need to spare Wilson this agony.  SIgn Johnson who looked decent in preseason and sit Wilson.  I get he's the future etc etc etc. But he's just not ready nor is the talent level on offense ready either, especially the OL.  There's the old addege that a young player only learns through experience but this just does not apply here since Wilson does not have a supporting cast to compensate his growing pains.  He's going to get hurt and that will be really really bad.  Look what happened to Burrows last year.  I dont get what the rush is.  This year is practically an exhibition/tryout year to see who can stick and who cant.  Another reason Wilson should NOT be on the field among countless other reasons.   Next year, the OL gets a much needed upgrade.  Thats a certainty.  JD got AVT and he will again get another blue chip OL in the draft. Guareenteed.  

[Green hat]

This is really the best summation that I've seen. We have invested in an unusual amount of youth and we can only hope they figure things out before there is too much pressure to change things yet again. How long will it take for the pressure to build? 

And then what will we end up with? We will swing the complete opposite direction and hire some elderly Jags with no new ideas, and say we solved the last problem. 

 

[GreenFish]

Nice write up. The offense just seems so out of sink. It’s not the most talented unit but they’re vastly underperforming. I’m thinking of plays like that out route to Elijah Moore that landed near his feet in the 1st quarter. Was that an inaccurate pass or was the timing just off? Without knowing the play, it felt to me that Zach thought he would break a little earlier. Corey Davis’ drop issues is not an issue he’s had in the past.

Aside from the RG and TE spots, I’m still expecting to see improvements as the year progresses.

[LionelRichie]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

The big problem I see is that the talent surrounding ZW is so bad that we wont be able to determine if he is indeed the "man" until its time to pay him.

In other words, we're gonna Darnold this kid.

that's what my biggest problem is.  JD knew they were drafting Wilson and leaving the OL such a mess is criminal.  Everyone says Linsley wasn't coming here.   He got $62.5/5, if we offer 75M/5, he's a NYJ.   Sure we'd lose a little cap space but the cap can get cleaned up before ZW needs a 2nd contract and it's more important to protect ZW than to save a few $ on the OL.    

You cannot have an OL that includes BOTH mcgovern + van rotten.   

[slimjasi]

The problem is that the team has been so unwatchable through 3 games that the media sharks are already circling. The Jets may not have as much time to figure things out as they would like. You can lose, but you can't be unwatchable and non-competitive. 

If this team is sitting here at 0-11 in November and looking as historically inept as last year's team did, I think there will be major changes to this organization, even given the contract situations. There has to be some semblance of progress and/or hope sooner than later. 

Douglas and is 9-26 as a GM and the team, SOMEHOW, is less competitive now then it was when he took over. That's the bottom line to me. 

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

Wow,  i didn't even know the coaching staff was this young , I mean its everyone's first time coaching at this level . Hows does a GM even let that happen?  Just cause you played the game doesn't mean you can coach the game .

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Ultimately it's not any one thing. It's all of them at once, and one of them influencing another is the core of why the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. For example, other teams have had a single awful offensive lineman before. They've even had two who were so lowly rated/ranked. The problem is everything else isn't remotely in place, so they can't possibly handle & cover for it. I glossed over it in another thread:

1. QB = Wilson's a rookie who typically worked out of shotgun, and - despite the attributes that made him a good prospect, like a very fast release and accuracy while doing so - has only worked in one offense and was able to do a lot of college'y things with impunity before he got here, like running backwards to avoid pressure, and many lengthy stare-downs which are really two problems: telegraphing the play to the defense and holding the ball too long. They're all fixable, rookie QBs make mistakes, and he needs to work through them; but with so many other things going on here he looks even worse and his uphill climb even steeper:
2. LT = Becton was initially out of shape or whatever since we never got straight answers, then returned and got schooled by his own edge rusher in practice or opposing edge rusher in scrimmages. Then he got injured halfway through week 1. Fant then took over, but he was playing the other side the whole summer (except not really; more on that below). I'm not nearly buying his notion as though it's like a righty throwing lefty, but will acknowledge there's an adjustment period. 
3. LG = AVT missed all 3 preseason games. Looked totally lost week 1, but has since settled. 
4. C = McGovern is just a horrible center. While certainly not a great center with Denver before this, he didn't look nearly this bad in 2019 even when sandwiched between a weak rookie LG Risner and a has-been RG Leary (whose career ended after 2019).
5. RG = GVR. Missed a lot of snaps this summer in a 4-headed guard competition between him, Clark, Lewis, and Feeney (and who knows how may, if any, snaps were also given to Edoga or anyone else initially). 
6. RT = Moses lost a camp competition to Fant. What that means is neither was getting all the snaps needed while installing a new system, and each probably received even less than GVR got at RG next to them. Then Fant had to switch sides when Becton went down in week 1. A cluster****. 
7. WR group is a mess.
   1. New addition Davis was, if anything, sure-handed in Tennessee. Now he has no hands at all.
   2. Mims has been discussed plenty, but it's enough to say he's not on the field.
   3. Moore missed weeks of the summer himself, then wasn't playing to his speed (thinking about scheme too much?), had hands issues of his own suddenly develop, and then got concussed.
   4. Crowder (badly undervalued by the fanbase all spring/summer) is a weird one of late; he was never an ironman but it's definitely a head-scratcher so far & couldn't possibly be so hurt he can't see the field at all since getting over covid (even while there was an extra active spot with Mims being deactivated yet again himself).
   5. Cole was supposed to be so good we didn't need Crowder anymore, since he was also more physical, and he's mostly been a ghost, only seeing action after Moore went down.
   6. Berrios is the only one playing well above expectations. Snicker all you want about him; he probably doesn't have the talent of any of the above 5, but has created enough separation in his role to get 21 targets in 3 games and reliably catch 14 of them. If only the other 5 all had his heart & dedication. 
8. RB group - some running talent here, but obvious issues with TJ picking up blitzes means he really shouldn't be on the field on passing downs until that's settled, making the play call too obvious to just have him out there on running downs. Carter looked good week 2, but by then was NE just protecting against the pass? Really, until the passing game starts doing some damage there isn't going to be much running room or consistency. Coleman is about what I'd expect given the circumstances, and ok as part of a committee. With a more legit passing threat and some better blocking he'd look a good amount better himself; but big whoop, what RB wouldn't?
9. TE group... (*crickets chirping*)

That's just the personnel. Ability-wise, there are some weak points, but the problem is all these weak points showing at once, and if there's anything compounding them. And there is:

1. OC = LaFleur's first year of a first-time OC, installing a new offense for the first time ever, calling plays for the first time ever. He came out of a successful program, but what's starting to show is something more. It's really the only offense he's coached much and, at age 34, doesn't seem to have a seasoned-enough background to be able to change things up when he doesn't have the personnel to run what he wants, on top of all these players running it for the first time, which itself is on top of how many didn't even get a full summer of working on it with the first team because of injuries and position competitions. 
2. HC = Saleh's first year of a first-time HC, mostly powerless to do anything to change it, since that's not his forte either. Saleh's only possible remedy to change to something simpler is to demote Mike LaFleur and promote Cavanaugh. Cavanaugh isn't the greatest of the great, but he's an experienced offensive coach with many years as a QBC and OC in several different systems. He's got enough experience in other schemes to change to something different, and LaFleur may not. Except even that is an extreme long shot because there's obviously a conflict in Saleh's personal relationship ("best friends") with Matt LaFleur. If he demotes his best friend's brother, after just a few games, personally awkward wouldn't even be strong enough language.  
3. Assistant coaches on offense:
   1. Knapp (RIP) had his life cut short suddenly
   2. QBC Calabrese is 31 and is in his first year as a QBC. He was a QBC/OC at Wagner from 2017-18, lol. Coaching a rookie QB, in a system he's never coached or played in himself. 
   3. OLC Benton is experienced in this scheme (or similar enough). Would seem to be a good and sensible hire. The problems with the OL may not be of his making.
   4. Assistant OLC Moreland is in his first year coaching in the NFL after being at mostly forgettable college programs.
   5. Cavanaugh came on late after Knapp's untimely passing. Good hire under the circumstances, but really he got here and then the season started like 5 minutes later.
   6. Miles Austin was a terrific receiver for a few years but at 37 is in his first year as a WRC and the early returns are pretty bad;
   7. Taylor Embree is 32, and in his first year as a RBC
   8. Middleton is an experienced TE coach, but...yeah he's just a TE coach, on a team without any discernible talent to exploit/feature at TE

Anyway there's so much new all at once, it's almost folly to point to just one of them. Problems with personnel quality, problems with missed time due to health and competition at too many positions at once, all on top of a lot of newness in the scheme for all involved except for LaFleur and Benton.

It was all poorly conceived, and only arrogance in doing so - plus blind optimism from the HC on down, and the fanbase - would expect non-failure given all of it at the same time. I suppose it should only get better as the newness gets less new, but there's a legit concern that Wilson's health and other things will hold up by then. 

I don't have a strong opinion on it, other than the strong opinion that this sucks. OK it's not an opinion; objectively this offense sucks. 

Then there is the Jets curse that can only be stopped by combining the blood of a one eyed unicorn, Joe Namaths Fedora and the ashes of a phoenix on the third moon following a solar eclipse ..that sucks too.

[BornJetsFan1983]

46 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The problem is that the team has been so unwatchable through 3 games that the media sharks are already circling. The Jets may not have as much time to figure things out as they would like. You can lose, but you can't be unwatchable and non-competitive. 

If this team is sitting here at 0-11 in November and looking as historically inept as last year's team did, I think there will be major changes to this organization, even given the contract situations. There has to be some semblance of progress and/or hope sooner than later. 

Douglas and is 9-26 as a GM and the team, SOMEHOW, is less competitive now then it was when he took over. That's the bottom line to me. 

less competitive? I mean easy to say wihtout context. If WR or others dont drop the ball when zach hits them in the chest, we are scoring points. Did you watch any of the games the last couple of year, we are much better team now.

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Did you watch any of the games the last couple of year, we are much better team now.

Oh really? Based on what?

The defense has been competitive so far this season. It was competitive under Gregg Williams at times, as well. 

The offense has been an unmitigated disaster. We have scored 20 points in three games. 14 of those points came in garbage time of game 1. We just got shutout in game # 3. What tangible evidence is there that we are currently a better team then we were at this point last season? And "much" better? How so? 

Please cite your evidence and/or reasoning. 

[ScarletKnight89]

We're likely heading for the 1st overall pick in the 2022 draft. I have no confidence Joe Douglas will get that pick right. Just saying...

[varjet]

The key to keeping your GM job is to prevent your team from having any critical weak links. They can be on the OL and at CB, for example.  That is how Tannenbaum (Kendall, Clarke) and Idzik (CB) lost their jobs. 
 

What MCGovern was an ok signing and is serviceable.  It’s GVR next to him who is the biggest problem.  The Jets need to make a change.  Why not play Ross Pierbacher at C? He played for Alabama.  

[Bronx]

We are the J-E-T-S 

[munchmemory]

Truer words could not have been spoken to Zack:

[artemusclyde]

In regards to Fant, he's actually been rated as one of the best LT's in the NFL so far for the opening of the season. We really should have played Moses at right guard over Roten like I've been saying. Probably also should have drafted Wirfs based off how well Fant's been doing as a LT, but that's another point entirely.

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It was all poorly conceived, and only arrogance in doing so - plus blind optimism from the HC on down, and the fanbase - would expect non-failure given all of it at the same time.

Such an excellent post, but this is the part that makes the Jets sucking inexcusable: everything wrong with the team is a result of a conscious choice by management. Saleh is like that dude who opens a company and hires all of his frat bros into admin positions despite them not knowing anything about being a manager. It was all doomed to fail from the start, and everything afterward has been handled horribly.