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Who are going to be our starting FS, small linebacker and nickel corner?


Beerfish
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These spots seem to me to be the camp battles.

FS:  Joyner, Ashtyn Davis, Pinnock

Small linebacker:  Sherwood, Nasirildeen

Nickel Corner:  Michael Carter, Echols, Guidry,  not sure if Bryce Hall can play nickel?

What say you all?

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I think they are going to rotate all those positions.  I think that the top 3 corners will be Reed, Gardner and Hall.  They can slide Reed to slot easily enough.   He has done it enough particularly for Saleh when he was drafted by SF.  FWIW Reed also played over 150 snaps at free safety for Saleh

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Here's my thoughts:

FS - It has to be Joyner, with such a young secondary we need a vet on the back end
to help with alignments/communication.  Joyner needs to be an "on-field co-DC" along
with Mosley

Nickel - Carter was impressive there last year and I don't think anyone will beat
him out

3rd LB - It should be a battle between Sherwood, Nasirildeen, Marcell Harris (SF free
agent we picked up) and DQ Thomas (UDFA).  Harris knows the system and Thomas stats and
amount of $$$ given (130K) means the team really likes him

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

3rd LB - It should be a battle between Sherwood, Nasirildeen, Marcell Harris (SF free
agent we picked up) and DQ Thomas (UDFA).  Harris knows the system and Thomas stats and
amount of $$$ given (130K) means the team really likes him

That’s scary. JD must be eyeing up some trade possibilities as teams are getting to camp. This was a very deep linebacker draft so I’d be surprised if he weren’t able to upgrade that position through a trade or the waiver wire.

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I dont know about "nickel" but the top 4 CBs of Sauce, Reed, Hall and MCII are a solid group with 2 guys who have experience playing the slot and 3 guys with experience playing outside CB.

Ideally we will not need to give them much help over the top, allowing Whitehead to play in the box and whoever the FS is to play a true centerfielder role.   I hope that is Joyner myself but who knows.

As for LB, I could see us signing someone, preferably Kwon Alexander, but I dont think we can simply go with the Nasirldeen/Sherwood experiment.  That went really poorly last year and we dont have the safety depth behind Whitehead to move him to nickel LB.

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3 hours ago, KRL said:

Here's my thoughts:

FS - It has to be Joyner, with such a young secondary we need a vet on the back end
to help with alignments/communication.  Joyner needs to be an "on-field co-DC" along
with Mosley

Nickel - Carter was impressive there last year and I don't think anyone will beat
him out

3rd LB - It should be a battle between Sherwood, Nasirildeen, Marcell Harris (SF free
agent we picked up) and DQ Thomas (UDFA).  Harris knows the system and Thomas stats and
amount of $$$ given (130K) means the team really likes him

How young is this secondary, really?   Hall is in his 3rd year - Revis had one of the best years of any corner ever in his 3rd year and he was a younger rookie.  DJ Reed and Whitehead are in their 5th seasons.  No matter how much @New York Mick dislikes him, Davis is also entering his 3rd season.  I get that Gardner is a rookie, and there are a bunch of 2nd year guys, but the purpose of playing those guys last year was so that they'd be ready now - Echols and Carter played about 750 snaps each last year, Guidry almost 500, even Pinnock and Dunn played over 100.  Elijah Riley played almost 400 snaps.  The purpose of those growing pains was supposed to be readiness now.  Joyner might still be the best choice, but he's actually had less time on the field in the system than most of these guys.

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I like Pinnock to win the safety job, maybe that’s just me being an optimist but he showed well and now had an offseason to learn the position, and Carter to hold on to the nickel spot.

Linebacker is tricky because Sherwood’s injury was an Achilles so don’t know when he’ll be back or how he’ll play. I think Javin White is a sleeper there. Nasirildeen obviously in play. And Del’Shawn Phillips played a good deal of snaps last year.

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11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

These spots seem to me to be the camp battles.

FS:  Joyner, Ashtyn Davis, Pinnock

Small linebacker:  Sherwood, Nasirildeen

Nickel Corner:  Michael Carter, Echols, Guidry,  not sure if Bryce Hall can play nickel?

What say you all?

Good topic Beerfish.

FS:  Jets still aren’t a single piece away from a championship so I really like the philosophy of giving a young guy like Pinnock a chance to step up with a guy like Joyner as the failsafe.  Smart roster management and player development

Will:  I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s someone who isn’t on the roster.  For now, I’d say Sherwood

Nickel:  We’ll likely see a rotation between Carter and Reed with the latter splitting reps between the outside & inside.  Allows us to be creative & deceptive in our matchups.  IMO Bryce Hall is too good not to be a core part of the outside rotation with Sauce and Reed.  We now have good problems to debate ;)

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26 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Slot CB: MC2

WLB: Hamsah

FS: Joyner

I think Hall is the first outside corner off the bench.

I dont think theyll have a rotation like they will at DL.

Since I am a guy that suggested they will rotate, I will say that I agree it will not be like on the DL.  I do not think that they will do a strict rotation like they do on DL to keep guys fresh, but I think they will move guys in and out and guys like Joyner, MC2 and Reed will be playing slot and FS in addition to Reed often being an outside corner.

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Part of the reason I was hoping the pick in the 2nd was a safety.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy with Hall but Joyner is a JAG and Davis isn’t reliable.  Don’t see JD making a trade for a safety, so as much as I don’t like it, I’d assume one of them would be the starter.  Maybe someone shakes free during TC.

LB I’ve heard a lot about the jets interest in a potential cut Deion Jones. Is that a guy that would fill the “tiny LB” role?

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33 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Good topic Beerfish.

FS:  Jets still aren’t a single piece away from a championship so I really like the philosophy of giving a young guy like Pinnock a chance to can step up with a guy like Joyner as the failsafe.  Smart roster management and player development

Will:  I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s someone who isn’t on the roster.  For now, I’d say Sherwood

Nickel:  We’ll likely see a rotation between Carter and Reed with the latter splitting reps between the outside & inside.  Allows us to be creative & deceptive in our matchups.  IMO Bryce Hall is too good not to be a core part of the outside rotation with Sauce and Reed.  We now have good problems to debate ;)

I mostly agree with this. They’ve beefed up the CB position enough to get creative and continue teaching the young guys at FS. I’d love for Davis to take the job. He’s been a disappointment. But if Pinnock can take it, that would be great. 
 
After they signed Reed, Saleh (paraphrasing) said that he’d made a mistake the last time he worked with Reed by pigeonholing him in the slot due to his size, but he realizes now that he’s a solid outside CB. For Reed’s part, he took that #1 because he sees himself as a #1 CB. I think Sauce and Reed will be the primary outside guys with Hall as the first backup, rotational piece, and MC2 the slot. Reeds versatility might cost Guidry his job, though. The room is fairly crowded. 

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11 hours ago, Beerfish said:

These spots seem to me to be the camp battles.

Small linebacker:  Sherwood, Nasirildeen

 

If we REALLY need a small linebacker, has anyone checked in with Darron Lee?

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37 minutes ago, heymangold said:

Part of the reason I was hoping the pick in the 2nd was a safety.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy with Hall but Joyner is a JAG and Davis isn’t reliable.  Don’t see JD making a trade for a safety, so as much as I don’t like it, I’d assume one of them would be the starter.  Maybe someone shakes free during TC.

LB I’ve heard a lot about the jets interest in a potential cut Deion Jones. Is that a guy that would fill the “tiny LB” role?

I’m not quite sure Joyner is a JAG.  He was a very good free safety with the Rams before signing a big contract with the Raiders, who inexplicably moved him to the slot, where he didn’t perform well.

2017 PFF (FS with Rams) = 91 (elite)

2018 PFF (FS with Rams) = 75 (very good)

JD brought him in to move back to FS and Saleh spoke glowingly of him in camp pre injury.  

The risks here are his age, the fact he hasn’t played FS in a few years and time missed due to injury (although believe it was his elbow; not legs).

FWIW- I’d like to see Pinnock win the role.

“Over the final three weeks of the 2021 season, Jason Pinnock was PFF’s 4th highest graded Safety (80.7) ”

High marks in coverage, stopping run, and tackling.  On a banged up team against Tampa and a hungry Buffalo. 

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4 hours ago, mrcoops said:

Nickel - Carter II did a good job last year, it's his job until someone beats him out.

No one on that historically bad defense should be described as "doing a good job".

And now the two guys ahead of Carter II, Hall and Echols, are newly out of starting jobs with the additions of Gardner and Reed, the presumed CB starters.

So Carter II, previously the #3 CB/Nickel, is now the #5 CB and will have to battle Hall and Echols and also-rans like Guidry to even make the roster, much less be the starting Nickel corner.  I presume he'll make the team (Guidry likely won't), but it's an open question if he'll get any real playing time now.  

Quote

FS:  Joyner, Ashtyn Davis, Pinnock

I believe Whitehead is the starting Free Safety.

Joyner and Davis will compete to be the starting Strong Safety.

Of course in this particular DB-heavy rotational system "Free vs. Strong" has less meaning that it used to back in the day.

Quote

Small linebacker:  Sherwood, Nasirildeen

I expect Mosley and Q.Williams to be the LB starters/get the most playing time, barring injury. 

Others will be rotational as needed.

Nasirildeen had all of 3 solo tackles last year.  I don't see him now as suddenly a starter.

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1 hour ago, heymangold said:

Part of the reason I was hoping the pick in the 2nd was a safety.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy with Hall but Joyner is a JAG and Davis isn’t reliable.  Don’t see JD making a trade for a safety, so as much as I don’t like it, I’d assume one of them would be the starter.  Maybe someone shakes free during TC.

LB I’ve heard a lot about the jets interest in a potential cut Deion Jones. Is that a guy that would fill the “tiny LB” role?

One of the best arguments for the Sauce pick is, while he's not a Safety, having a legit #1 starting CB helps mitigate other issues in the secondary.  It did when Revis was here.

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Replacing MCII at nickel would be crazy. He did a great job as a rookie last year.

IMO it's Sauce, Reed, MCII. Hall & Echols back them up.

When you look at it, that's a really deep group. Quite an upgrade over the offseason

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Really good discussion. Dont remember who alluded to it in another thread but we might be looking at attempting some position less secondary. While we might not have the best talent, we seem to have improved our depth and versatility a lot. Lots of guys can be rotated into FS or Nickle. I hope Ulbricht has enough creativity and balls to try it out. Get innovative even if it fails. 

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I think the Reed signing was great value on a good player but I also think it was JDs safety net if Sauce was drafted before us. Now that we got him we have this problem, although it’s a good problem.
 

I’d like:

FS: Pinnock

Will: Hamsah 

Nickel:MC2

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Would be great to embrace an all out youth movement, however that's unrealistic and most likely will result to a lot of losing.

The Joyner, Ashtyn Davis and Pinnock battle will be a good one. Davis for once will have an healthy offseason to prepare. Pinnock should have some confidence after a strong finish. Health most likely will manipulate the winner.

The slot position depends on the WRs we have to cover and preference. If Sauce and Reed are covering the slot then Hall can jump in on the outside. If the slot is a complimentary receiver then I can see MC2 in there. 

Didn't see much of anything from Sherwood or Nasirildeen but injuries. Not looking forward to either starting. Probably not of interest but I would like for us to go after Landon Collins. 

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57 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No one on that historically bad defense should be described as "doing a good job".

And now the two guys ahead of Carter II, Hall and Echols, are newly out of starting jobs with the additions of Gardner and Reed, the presumed CB starters.

So Carter II, previously the #3 CB/Nickel, is now the #5 CB and will have to battle Hall and Echols and also-rans like Guidry to even make the roster, much less be the starting Nickel corner.  I presume he'll make the team (Guidry likely won't), but it's an open question if he'll get any real playing time now.  

Nickel CB is a skill set unto its own, and MC1 is almost certainly still their #1 Nickel. Adding Reed and Sauce pushed Hall down from starter to first guy off the bench to play outside, IMO. 

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