Woody and Saleh engaged in “heated” convo at owner’s meeting afterparty

[bicketybam]

8 minutes ago, varjet said:

My impression is that Saleh is a lame duck, he knows it, he is frustrated about that and his bumbling owners, he hates Zach Wilson who has almost single-handedly ruined his career, and he wishes he was back in SF as DC with Woody’s money.  

He does not seem all-in. 

I don’t think we can blame booze for anything that happened.  I don’t think Saleh drinks.  Woody seems to be drinking more.  As I told a friend today, the good thing about the 2024 off season is that I think it has been incontrovertibly exposed that Woody is the source of all of this organization’s problems.  

At some point this off season Ulbrich is the interim HC.  I don’t know when, but it is coming. 

Saleh is under contract for 2 more years. How is that a lame duck? 

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

No you're probably right he's just the worst pick in Jets history for no reason 

And he's still here 

You explain it then 

The Jets don’t want to eat his salary and his poor play makes this situation very different than the Sam Darnold trade where teams thought Sam could be salvaged or that the Jets were to blame for his struggles.

That’s what it boils down to.  If it meant that they’d be completely off the hook for the remainder of his contract, the Jets would take a low pick to off-load him tomorrow.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

11 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I wouldn’t say he wanted no part of Wilson, as LaFleur was a very big Wilson fan, but it was Saleh’s preference to trade down and “spread the wealth” amongst the entire team while trying to see if Darnold can reach his full potential.

This is great stuff Mogglez!

Last questions from me.

 

1. Did Becton mature?

2. Is JFM more valuable than some give him credit for?

3. Was Rodgers really ready to return last year and was the buzz about his late season practices real or manufactured?

4. Last man standing in a physical fight?  JD, Saleh or our very own Kevin?

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I wouldn’t say he wanted no part of Wilson, as LaFleur was a very big Wilson fan, but it was Saleh’s preference to trade down and “spread the wealth” amongst the entire team while trying to see if Darnold can reach his full potential.

This is exactly the part of this whole thing that smells to high heaven. Saleh was a very successful DC, one of the best guys in the NFL. He and his  coaches probably studied hours of film on Wilson, especially that Coastal Carolina game, and saw that this guy had numerous deficiencies that don't translate to success at the next level. They point these out to JD, as guys that study QB's and game plan how to beat them, and he disregards their input? 

[bitonti]

22 minutes ago, Larz said:

So woody is letting Neelman run the team because favors ?

what is your evidence?

 

it’s just ridiculous dude 

OK so what's your theory? Jd is just dumb as cow sh*t? 

I'm willing to accept that explanation as well. 

One of my rules making mock drafts is don't under estimate how dumb nfl teams can be 

Again see Williams comma Caleb 

Pretzel talk aside I don't think jd is that dumb to overdraft a 2nd Rd qb prospect at 2 overall 

But it's also possible. I'm not ruling it out 

One thing for certain they didn't just get unlucky. They did this to themselves 

 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

OK so what's your theory? Jd is just dumb as cow sh*t? 

I'm willing to accept that explanation as well. 

One of my rules making mock drafts is don't under estimate how dumb nfl teams can be 

Again see Williams comma Caleb 

Pretzel talk aside I don't think jd is that dumb to overdraft a 2nd Rd qb prospect at 2 overall 

But it's also possible. I'm not ruling it out 

One thing for certain they didn't just get unlucky. They did this to themselves 

 

Douglas keeping around this long because he’s stubborn is not remotely plausible 

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

OK so what's your theory? Jd is just dumb as cow sh*t? 

I'm willing to accept that explanation as well. 

One of my rules making mock drafts is don't under estimate how dumb nfl teams can be 

Again see Williams comma Caleb 

Pretzel talk aside I don't think jd is that dumb to overdraft a 2nd Rd qb prospect at 2 overall 

But it's also possible. I'm not ruling it out 

One thing for certain they didn't just get unlucky. They did this to themselves 

 

San Francisco traded 3 ones to take Trey Lance right behind him. 

[bitonti]

12 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The Jets don’t want to eat his salary and his poor play makes this situation very different than the Sam Darnold trade where teams thought Sam could be salvaged or that the Jets were to blame for his struggles.

That’s what it boils down to.  If it meant that they’d be completely off the hook for the remainder of his contract, the Jets would take a low pick to off-load him tomorrow.

I understand why he's on the roster now but I'll never understand how he went 2 overall or how he got 34 starts in the league and counting 

But I have theories 

[slimjasi]

 

16 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Excellent point.

But the commotion is usually left behind closed doors, no? 

And makes you wonder what Woody must be thinking every time he has to listen to Saleh open his mouth to the press uttering nonsense.

Usually, yes. 

22 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

And makes you wonder what Woody must be thinking every time he has to listen to Saleh open his mouth to the press uttering nonsense.

I’m sure that works both ways 

[bitonti]

Just now, bicketybam said:

San Francisco traded 3 ones to take Trey Lance right behind him. 

Well missing at 2 will always be worse than missing at 3 

But they moved on 

They did not give him 34 starts to see if he could work out the kinks 

They recognized their mistakes and moved on 

The Jets have Zach on scholarship it's a mystery. 

 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

But I have theories 

We're all ears, keep it coming!

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

This is great stuff Mogglez!

Last questions from me.

 

1. Did Becton mature?

2. Is JFM more valuable than some give him credit for?

3. Was Rodgers really ready to return last year and was the buzz about his late season practices real or manufactured?

4. Last man standing in a physical fight?  JD, Saleh or our very own Kevin?

1. In many ways, yes.  Unfortunately, I don’t know if he will ever be the guy we saw before his injury.

2.  Very much so.  I’d liken him to a 4-3 version of Bryan Thomas, with better pass rushing ability.

3. Ready to return?  Kind of.  He wouldn’t have been 100%.  I think it’s better that they decided to shut him down.

4. Lmfao; Saleh - hands down.

3 minutes ago, section314 said:

This is exactly the part of this whole thing that smells to high heaven. Saleh was a very successful DC, one of the best guys in the NFL. He and his  coaches probably studied hours of film on Wilson, especially that Coastal Carolina game, and saw that this guy had numerous deficiencies that don't translate to success at the next level. They point these out to JD, as guys that study QB's and game plan how to beat them, and he disregards their input? 

Saleh is a fantastic DC, but he delegates to his staff.  That’s how he pitched himself to the Jets, and that’s what the Jets got.  If his GM, OC, Senior Advisor (Knapp), and other offensive coaches think that they can coach the kid to his potential, Saleh is going to trust them and “give his blessing.”  Input comes from everywhere and, for better or worse, that is how the decision to draft Zach Wilson came to fruition.

[bicketybam]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Well missing at 2 will always be worse than missing at 3 

But they moved on 

They did not give him 34 starts to see if he could work out the kinks 

They recognized their mistakes and moved on 

The Jets have Zach on scholarship it's a mystery. 

 

Missing at 2 is not as bad as trading 3 ones to move up to 3 and missing there. Use your ******* head.

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, section314 said:

This is exactly the part of this whole thing that smells to high heaven. Saleh was a very successful DC, one of the best guys in the NFL. He and his  coaches probably studied hours of film on Wilson, especially that Coastal Carolina game, and saw that this guy had numerous deficiencies that don't translate to success at the next level. They point these out to JD, as guys that study QB's and game plan how to beat them, and he disregards their input? 

JD is Woody's meat puppet 

His job is not to win games or be cool with the fans, it's to keep one person happy the owner 

JD probably knows woody would fall in love with Zach and he knows woody will fall in love with Aaron

He sells the owner on ideas the owner is predisposed to like 

I'm willing to accept jd is just bad at his job but it doesn't explain how this player gets the better part of 3 seasons worth of starts 

I mean guys like jamarcus and leaf, Zach breaks their records because he's given all these opportunities 

[Mogglez]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I understand why he's on the roster now but I'll never understand how he went 2 overall or how he got 34 starts in the league and counting 

But I have theories 

Coaches that believe in their ability to coach, for better or worse, and the sunken cost fallacy from a GM that, deep down, knows he bombed the 2nd overall pick.  I wish I could tell you that it’s juicier than that, but that’s pretty much it.

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Missing at 2 is not as bad as trading 3 draft picks to move up to 3 and missing there. Use your ******* head.

Sticking with Zach for 4 seasons is way worse than recognizing your mistake with Lance 

It's called the sunk cost fallacy you should ask Google about it 

[UntouchableCrew]

23 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

The Jets don’t want to eat his salary and his poor play makes this situation very different than the Sam Darnold trade where teams thought Sam could be salvaged or that the Jets were to blame for his struggles.

That’s what it boils down to.  If it meant that they’d be completely off the hook for the remainder of his contract, the Jets would take a low pick to off-load him tomorrow.

But it's guaranteed. They're paying it no matter what.

The real question is "is the team better off with him off the roster?" to which the answer is yes.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I understand why he's on the roster now but I'll never understand how he went 2 overall or how he got 34 starts in the league and counting 

But I have theories 

To me, the scariest thing is how JetBlue managed not only to muscle Woody into taking Zach, but how they managed to convince roughly 2/3 of NFL GMs that Zach Wilson was the second best QB in the 2021 draft. I mean, they even infiltrated an elite organization like the 49ers and brainwashed them into wanting Zach Wilson!!!!!

How did they get operatives inside the 49ers!?!??!? Are Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch secret JetBlue triple agents!!?!?!?!? Just how powerful are they!?!?!?!?

 

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

But it's guaranteed. They're paying it no matter what.

The real question is "is the team better off with him off the roster?" to which the answer is yes.

That’s not true.  If a team trades for Zach, straight up, they take on the remainder of his contract.  That’s the hold up.  The teams that have made offers want the Jets to pay Zach to acquire the pick they are offering because he has played so poorly.  The Jets don’t want to do that.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

To me, the scariest thing is how JetBlue managed not only to muscle Woody into taking Zach, but how they managed to convince roughly 2/3 of NFL GMs that Zach Wilson was the second best QB in the 2021 draft. I mean, they even infiltrated an elite organization like the 49ers and brainwashed them into wanting Zach Wilson!!!!!

How did they get operatives inside the 49ers!?!??!? Are Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch secret JetBlue triple agents!!?!?!?!? Just how powerful are they!?!?!?!?

 

the sf and phi stories were imagination leaks by team Wilson to inflate/sustain his value. SF qb Steve young is part of this operation 

There's no actual proof anyone but NYJ wanted Zach wilson at 2 prices 

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Sticking with Zach for 4 seasons is way worse than recognizing your mistake with Lance 

It's called the sunk cost fallacy you should ask Google about it 

Stop changing the argument. You make it sound like JD was the only one who wanted Zach Wilson. That's false. Wilson was pretty much the consensus #2 QB behind Lawrence. It was rumored that the Niners wanted him. When they couldn't get Wilson they traded 3 number 1 picks to move up to three and take Trey Lance. They blew 3 picks on a guy who was considered the 5th best QB in the class. I don't give a sh*t about how long who stuck with who. I'm talking about the decision to draft Wilson at 2 vs trading 3 ones to take Trey Lance. That is far far worse. Anyone with a functioning brain knows this so just stop.

[Mogglez]

Just now, bitonti said:

the sf and phi stories were imagination leaks by team Wilson to inflate/sustain his value. SF qb Steve young is part of this operation 

There's no actual proof anyone but NYJ wanted Zach wilson at 2 prices 

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the San Francisco 49ers wanted Wilson.

The Eagles?  That was fluff.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the sf and phi stories were imagination leaks by team Wilson to inflate/sustain his value. SF qb Steve young is part of this operation 

There's no actual proof anyone but NYJ wanted Zach wilson at 2 prices 

 

 

[Warfish]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

JD is Woody's meat puppet 

JD is a horrible GM unable to evaluate either QB, Oline or WR terribly well, who consistently makes bad decisions at all those positions.

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

JD probably knows woody would fall in love with Zach and he knows woody will fall in love with Aaron

JD fell in love with a hyped prospect that the ENTIRE NFL had ranked #2 that year, in a COVID year, like a goodly portion of JN itself did, and gave him 2 years, pretty standard for a #2 overall pick in the NFL.  He was benched in his 2nd year (did Woody discipline JD and Saleh for that, seems not).

At the end of year 2 he saw the writing on the wall for Zach, and did everything he could to get HOF'er Aaron Rodgers to save his own ass, and was so smug about it he failed to properly plan for an injury.  He kept Zach because Zach was more expensive to cut than to keep, never expecting to have to play him, but probably still hoping "his guy" might turn it around.  And Zach was once again benched (seems a bad idea ot bench and embarrass the owners conspiracy-relation kid, doesn't it?)

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'm willing to accept jd is just bad at his job

Outside one draft (Sauce/Wilson/Hall) and two trades (Darnold and Adams), has JD really struck you as some kind of wunderkind NFL GM?

He's been pretty sh*t all around Bit.  Why should his decisions at QB be any better?

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

but it doesn't explain how this player gets the better part of 3 seasons worth of starts

Almost every #2 pick QB gets two seasons Bit.  Do we need to go back and look at every busty bad top pick QB who got 2 seasons before being dumped in NFL history?  Because it's going to be a looooooooong list mate.

Lets start here:  How did JaMarcus Russell get three seasons before being dumped?  How did Ryan Leaf get two seasons before being dumped?  Where those GM's involved in conspiracy/"favors" of those QB's families too?  Both were every bit as bad as Zach.

You can't ignore that JD paid a king's ransom to NOT play Zach in year 3 by getting Rodgers.  The fact he failed to plan for contingency isn't a sign of conspiracy, it's a sign of a bad GM being bad.

Again, why would Woody ok getting Rodgers to replace Zach in year 3, but not ok bringing in a better QB when Rodgers went down in order to "play Zach"?  This is assinine-levels of illogical.  JD ****ed up, and JD was too stubborn about his guys to go out and get a real backup.

Keep in mind, this is the same GM who thought Flacco, Mike White, Josh Johnson, Trevor Siemien, Boyle and Rypian were all good QB's to have on his roster, lol.  Or did Woody hand pick all those guys too, lol.

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I mean guys like jamarcus and leaf, Zach breaks their records because he's given all these opportunities 

Not really.  As noted, they got the same amount of time as Zach before being replaced or cut.  

[section314]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

But it's guaranteed. They're paying it no matter what.

The real question is "is the team better off with him off the roster?" to which the answer is yes.

If this whole story about Woody and Saleh is legit then this would be my take as what caused it. I could see them talking after Woody's presser with the media, and Saleh letting Woody know that this team views Wilson as someone who is not part of them anymore, hasn't been for over a year, and that he will be doing irredeemable harm to this locker room if he ever sets foot in it again. Say what you want about Saleh, he knows his team. 

[Lurker89]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Spoken like a man who never had the pleasure of playing JN Mafia in its heyday.

 

@The Crusher @Integrity28 @JustInFudge @Pac @CTM @AVM @SMC @Bleedin Green @Nolder @Jets Voice of Reason @Dan. @Doggin94it @Drums @Stark @Leelou @Sharrow @Vicious89x @DPR @Arsis @Irish Jet @T0mShane @jvill 51 @Greenseed4 @Smashmouth @Spoot-Face @Barry McCockinner @Verbal @HessStation @Jetscode1 @ZachEY @StraightCash @LemonTree @Lemon Dawg @Lurker89 @BallinPB @jgb @Hal @Hal N of Provo

Living life like Im at L1

[Lurker89]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Douglas and Saleh fighting at the owner's meeting.  @Matt39 and @Warfish fighting here.  This is great.

@Lurker89 get your a$$ in here!  You're missing all the fun!

 

 

Lol I love how you try to summon me like a demon whenever chaos is erupting😂

[maury77]

4 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Just a friendly reminder that the last time baseless rumors got peddled regarding “internal dysfunction” based on “30 individual sources”, this was the end result for those who get their information from the voices inside their heads:

Saleh can go and we can promote Ulbrich for all I care but if a head coach, in a “must-win” season, got into a heated and awkward fight with the owner of the team he coaches for, at a private/NFL organized party, does anyone seriously believe for one second that all of the big-name NFL reporters would just let Colleen Wolf of all people get that exclusive scoop to peddle on her podcast?

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not really.  As noted, they got the same amount of time as Zach before being replaced or cut.  

Zach was replaced last year and started 12 games 

Guys who get replaced don't start 12 games

34 games over 3 seasons is a ridiculous amount of reps to give a player that showed so little 

As bickity bam points out the niners took Lance at 3 that was a bad pick too but they did not give him 34 starts over 3 seasons. They gave him 4 starts over 2.

It's the leash length that's suspicious. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

Lol I love how you try to summon me like a demon whenever chaos is erupting😂

How I imagine you look when you see the tag:

 

[bitonti]

17 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

I'm talking about the decision to draft Wilson at 2 vs trading 3 ones to take Trey Lance. That is far far worse

At least trey lance was a bit of an athlete 

Wilson didn't even test 

17 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the San Francisco 49ers wanted Wilson.

The Eagles?  That was fluff.

I'll believe this but it's an act of faith 

I don't understand how people could look at Zachs film and say he's a top 2 or 3 player. In that draft with 3 gold jackets in chase, Sewell and Micah 

No signature wins, 26 year old linemen (and Brady Christensen). The coastal debacle 

No senior bowl no combine testing no 40 no vert etc 

When Marvin Harrison chooses not to test I get that. There's GPS of him running 23 mph in a game 

I'll go to my grave wondering how exactly the Zach scouting process went down 

 

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach was replaced last year and started 12 games 

Guys who get replaced don't start 12 games

Sure they do, when the GM is bad and fails to properly plan for his shiny new ironman HOF'er to get hurt week 1 after 4 plays.

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

34 games over 3 seasons is a ridiculous amount of reps to give a player that showed so little 

1 year as starter.

2nd year as starter and benched, then replaced.

3rd year as backup and a hail mary he might finally "get it".

Nothing whatever unusual about that in NFL history for a #2 type of QB pick Bit.  

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

As bickity bam points out the niners took Lance at 3 that was a bad pick too but they did not give him 34 starts over 3 seasons. They gave him 4 starts over 2.

Because he was hurt almost that entire time, and they found better options in the interim.

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It's the leash length that's suspicious. 

What leash?

Does a guy on an unlimited leash because he's a "made man" get benched in his 2nd year?

Does a guy on an unlimited leash because he's a "made man" get replaced by a HOF'er before his 3rd year?  And then benched again when he is forced to play in that 3rd year?

The amount of cherry picking of facts required to believe this is how a "made man" gets treated is just stunning to me.  This reeks of bad GM'ing, not meddlesome ownership.  Owners meddle because they want to win and think they know best, not because they want to do utterly illogical franchise-killing "favors" to poorer acquaintances who once owned a company who advertised with him long before the QB in question was playing with legos.  Rodgers?  I can believe Woody might meddle for Rodgers, a clear winner and HOF'er.  For Zach and JetBlue at any cost?  lol come on.

JD and Zach has followed the "Bust QB" script to the letter.  Handed the job, failed.  Tried again, benched, then replaced, but kept as a backup because of his cost and some lingering GM hope.  HOF'er goes down, bad GM had no plan B, so bust plays again, and gets embarrassed worse than almost any QB in history, and gets benched a 2nd time, and then repeatedly has stories leaked to the press about how much he sucks and didn't want to play.

Lets be strait Bit, if this is how Woody does "favors" for people, no one on this planet would ever ask the man for a favor, lol.

Again, what you are is a JD apologist.  A JD homer.  You love some JD, and simply cannot and will not accept how bad a GM JD truly is, despite reams of JD-led mistakes at almost every position on the Offense, and often several mistakes as some positions.

Maybe the REAL conspiracy here is that you're JD's cousin and he has you here white-knighting for him, lol.  Far more likely than the JetBlue Conspiracy.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach was replaced last year and started 12 games 

Guys who get replaced don't start 12 games

34 games over 3 seasons is a ridiculous amount of reps to give a player that showed so little 

As bickity bam points out the niners took Lance at 3 that was a bad pick too but they did not give him 34 starts over 3 seasons. They gave him 4 starts over 2.

It's the leash length that's suspicious. 

The deliberation of trying to get Mike White to play QB was documented during the 2022 season. Saleh had to fight for it. Douglas isn’t a total idiot he knew White was the better player. Then Zach comes back in and tanks the Jaguars game because he was moping about White. Then even after the Jaguars debacle the Jets clear the deck in the offseason and hand Wilson the backup role and basically make him just handoff during the preseason. 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

Nothing whatever unusual about that in NFL history for a #2 type of QB pick Bit.  

It's actually very unusual to be as bad as Zach and get that many starts 

Please look up his historical bust peers, 2 years maybe, no one but Zach gets 3. He should have been moved off the roster before last year 

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lets be strait Bit, if this is how Woody does "favors" for people, no one on this planet would ever ask the man for a favor, lol.

Meanwhile Zach wilson is still on the roster in year 4. After throwing the defense under the bus against the pats, begging out of games last year with a dehydration concussion and shipping his furniture (and himself) back to Utah with a month left in the season 

Clearly he's getting special treatment from someone 

If he were anyone else but Zach wilson he'd he getting his bonus clawed back for breach of contract 

[UntouchableCrew]

38 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

That’s not true.  If a team trades for Zach, straight up, they take on the remainder of his contract.  That’s the hold up.  The teams that have made offers want the Jets to pay Zach to acquire the pick they are offering because he has played so poorly.  The Jets don’t want to do that.

But nobody is trading for Zach because he sucks and isn't worth his salary. That seems pretty clear, yes? So they're stuck with it.

I'm not debating what the Jets "want." Obviously, dumping the awful player with the big salary on someone else for a draft pick would be great -- but we know that isn't happening. 

So, given where we are the question is "is it better to keep him and pay that money or better to cut him and pay that money." I'd argue there's zero doubt we're better off just getting him out of the building.